Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

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EarlH
Victor III
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Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by EarlH »

I went up and picked that green painted decapitated pooley cabinet yesterday with my brother. I'll take some more pictures of it once I get it out of the back of his pickup. It's actually not in too bad of shape other than what they did to it after reading one of those articles in Popular Mechanics on how to destroy some old piece of furniture. I have no idea what they were trying to make out of it unless they just wanted it for record storage for something to set on top of it. Who knows, but a lot of weird things went on with this stuff after WWII that's for sure.
Anyway, I don't know if this thing is worth trying to put back together or not. I guess that's the main question. I have seen VTLA machines come up for sale now and again that are in really bad shape and I could move the parts over. But I'd still have to re-make that odd shaped top that goes under the lid and I would need to get a trace of the profile to do that. That must be a two piece molding from the looks of it. That would be one heck of a shaper blade otherwise. And maybe someone has a Pooley cabinet like that that's stood in water and I could buy that part from what's left of that cabinet. The lid on this one is salvageable and the decal is pretty nice.
I'll get it home later and see what I think of it. I just took those two pictures of it over in his pickup. It didn't take much to get the lid pulled off as they just nailed it down with 4 finishing nails. It's really kind of a nice looking machine in person. Much more related to the later L-door machines than I really ever thought. I've owned a few of the early VTLA machines over the years and with that top part hacked off, they have a lot in common. I might still have a horn from a VTLA up in my attic, I'll have to see if I still do and see if it will fit in the opening.
So that's what has happened to that thing if you were wondering. And now I'm wondering what I should do next. The lid prop, ID tag and lid lock all seem like they will be a huge problem to hunt up and be correct. The ID tag of course will never be the one that really belongs on it as the serial number will be wrong. A VTLA one will turn up of course. This one would get that odd ratcheting prop I would imagine. I know there are guys out there that know much more about these things than I do. I'll have to get a tracing of that upper profile and see about getting that made first and then decide if it's really worth the trouble of putting it back together. It's always good to have a few lifelong quests, isn't it? HA!
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Pooley Cabinet decal
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De Soto Frank
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by De Soto Frank »

Earl,

Thanks for grabbing this and deciding it's worth trying to restore !


:)
De Soto Frank

EarlH
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by EarlH »

Well, I guess you do what you can and forget the rest. I'll have to wait and see what turns up for the thing to put it back together properly. I have that top rim from the next style VTLA and I'm pretty sure I have the lid around here somewhere, unless someone needed it worse than I did and I sold it to them. I have an idea the cabinet parts are out there somewhere, it's just a matter of hunting them up. I can refinish it, and I even have some varnish that was made in 1913, so I should be able to get it to look pretty much like it's supposed to. It was pretty shiny when it was new, you can see that from the good side of the lid.

You can sure see from that other lid molding how closely related this machine is, to the second style Victor made. That frieze almost lines up identically to the lines in the green paint for where the old molding was. Kind of a hoot really. I guess I could put that and the later lid on it and have a 'transition' model. Haha.
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Cody K
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by Cody K »

Great that you made the rescue, Earl! It looks a lot more salvageable in your pics than it did on craigslist. I wish you lots of luck with it, and I hope you'll keep the forum updated on your progress.

(You have 1913 varnish that's still useable? Wow.)
"Gosh darn a Billiken anyhow."- Uncle Josh Weathersby

EarlH
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by EarlH »

I'll keep you posted on this one. I actually thought it had to be worth the $100 for parts, but after I got home with it, it seems kind of a shame to finish scrapping it out. At least it can set for a year or so longer and see if anything turns up for it. It will also be a good refinishing project. I haven't done a piano finish in varnish for a few years so it will be a good excuse to use up some of that ancient varnish I have.

I bought 4-5 gallons of it a few years ago at an antique store. The guy couldn't believe I wanted what was in the can, so I bought the one's that had the worst labels on them. A couple of them had 1913 dates rubber stamped on the label, so they must be from about that time. I've used some of it and it dries (eventually) and that's the main thing. They didn't have much for fast drying varnishes in those days. This is light coach varnish, rubbing would be better, but this will work and it won't lift if it's in bright sunlight, and steam from a passing rail car won't cause it to blush white! The combination of shellac and varnish they used back when this thing was made, was one of the main reasons that the mahogany looked like it was rippling under the finish. It really is impressive when it's done. The early Victrolas really used some wonderful veneers in them.

Here's what the tins look like that the varnish came in.
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Cody K
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by Cody K »

Nice can, and the label is great too. I can see the rubber stamp in the picture. I suppose it must be the shellac in it that delays drying at this late a date? Great that you can still use it, though.
"Gosh darn a Billiken anyhow."- Uncle Josh Weathersby

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Tpapp54321
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by Tpapp54321 »

Earl,
I might have your solution ;) http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 14&t=17032 This thread mentions a chopped pooley cabinet and the reserve wasn't met. For mounths it had been on my local craigslist after it being on ebay but I don't think it ended up selling. I recommend contacting the seller and seeing if he still has it, it's a long shot but crazier things have happened :D Good luck,
-Tom

outune
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by outune »

I happen to know that the upper portion was indeed purchased by a collector. He is looking for a lower cabinet-- Perhaps I can get he and Earl together :)

Thanks-
Brad Abell

EarlH
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by EarlH »

Cody K wrote:Nice can, and the label is great too. I can see the rubber stamp in the picture. I suppose it must be the shellac in it that delays drying at this late a date? Great that you can still use it, though.
No, the old varnishes are very slow to dry. This was 25 years before the alkyds that we are used to today. In those days when they say it was an "8 hour varnish" they meant that dust wouldn't settle into it after 8 hours! And it takes about a week or two between coats. This is why most of the old furniture actually has shellac with some other resins in it to make it a bit more water resistant. And it's confusing when you read the old advertising because in those days they used the term varnish as a sort of generic term and it could mean actual varnish or shellac. Usually though, when they say spirit varnish, they do mean shellac. But one thing with these very slow drying varnishes is, if you are willing to put up with them, they will level out and be very smooth once they cure. So they really do a nicer job of filling the grain than most of the modern finishes do. I know the grain is to be filled with grain filler, but the finish will still tend to settle into the grain. The first coat will tend to do that with these old varnishes, but after that, they will level out to a glass like surface as long as you keep the dust away. It also explains why in 1923 and 4 when the modern spray lacquers came out, EVERYONE switched over to them. What was taking 3-4 months to do, now took 4-5 hours.

EarlH
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Re: Pooley Cabinet from Minneapolis Craigslist

Post by EarlH »

Well, I have looked into getting the molding made for this cabinet and it looks like it's going to be around $800 (Probably a little more) by the time the shaper knives are made and material bought for it. I don't have the exact profile yet, but a guy here on the forum has been kind enough to offer to trace his so I can get it duplicated.

Even if one that has been cut off became available, I don't think it could safely be pulled off the top of the cabinet after looking more closely at how these things were put together. That top molding is a solid piece of mahogany and is doweled and glued to the top of the cabinet. It would be really a challenge to get the loose without denting it all up or splitting it where the molding is thin not to mention breaking those miters apart. To try and get the whole top removed from the base would also be trouble because they glued and nailed that on before the lid molding was glued in place. The nail heads are all under that molding base.

I had a good friend of mine give me a motor for it, and I also had another phonograph collector offer me a lid prop. I already had a motorboard and a later VTLA ID tag that will work. And the other stuff will eventually turn up.

I have no problems refinishing it. I've done piano finishes on pianos and all sorts of other things before, so that's not really an issue. I can use that old varnish on it, it really dries to a nice gloss although it is slow. I'll have to add some japan to it and see if that helps it at all.

The color is kind of an odd one, but I'll figure that out. I actually like the red that was used on the later Victrolas much better. They had a LOT of trouble with reds (and blues) fading in those days and did not have a problem using arsenic in wood dyes to help keep the red from fading! I have a 1903 Wood finishing book that mentions it in more than one stain formula. And as and aside says "Of course the usual precautions should be observed" HA! It is hard sometimes to really know what some of this stuff actually looked like new because of fading and oxidizing, but it was quite red to begin with, that's for sure. Under the lid is a little darker than the rest of the cabinet, so that's probably what I'll go by. Plus, I won't be doing much with the bottom side of the lid, other than cleaning it and topcoating it to match the gloss on the rest of the thing.

So, that's pretty much where I'm at on this thing. I don't want to get totally upside down money-wise with it, but I still think that I'm ok with it. I really don't have any plans on re-selling it so that's not my main concern about the whole project. I have no idea how many of these things are still around. I know they are scarce, but they do seem to come up for sale now and again. It sure is a bizarre design with that lid like it is and the components down in the cellar! It was all new I suppose and it does make a person wonder what they were using for a design reference.

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