Viva-Tonal 810 in Long Island

[larryh]

It must be rare, I see Credenzas often over the years, I never seen another of this model except the one I purchased anywhere around here.

[gregbogantz]

The sound quality of the 800 series of Columbia VivaTonals compared with the Victor Credenza-size horn machines has been debated and documented on several of the phono lists, forums, and magazines, with considerable content on the original OTVMMB board. I have both machines, and the Victor is without question the more accurate. The Columbia horn is a mish-mash of designs, and it is not accurately logarithmic in its taper. Also, the Columbia #15 reproducer is not as good as the Victor orthophonic for a number of reasons. For more on this, check out the articles written by Thomas Rhodes (Mr. Orthophonic) in the ITG magazine and in the "Sound Box" magazine of the CAPS. The Columbia machines are pleasant sounding - if a bit tubby and muffled, so many owners find them fun to listen to, even though they aren't as accurate as the Victors.

[Lenoirstreetguy]

That's always been my understanding: that the horn is not really mathematically exponential, but merely an approximation. I can't remember: were Victor and ....thereby HMV.. granted exclusive rights to the folded (re-entrant) horn design or were they the only ones willing to pay the royalties? What I'm asking here is could Columbia have used the design if they had been willing to pay Western Electric for the use of the design?

Jim

[gregbogantz]

Yes, it was basically a matter of money. Victor was doing much better in the marketplace than either Edison or Columbia in the mid 1920s, and they didn't hesitate to invest in this new technology to further their market dominance. Columbia licensed the electrical recording technology from Western Electric, but they chose to develop their own players rather than buying the large folded or "re-entrant" exponential horn design from WE. The smaller horns in the 600 series of Viva-Tonals are simple, not folded designs and were very similar to those used by Victor in it's smaller orthophonics such as the 4-3. They also sound very nearly the same. I'm not sure if these designs were cheaper to license, or if they were already considered "public domain".

Edison chose not to pay for anything from WE. His laboratories developed their own electrical recording apparatus, but rather late in the game (the first recordings to be released were done in October, 1927). But very little development was evidently done on the Edisonic players. There is nothing really new to be seen in them. The use of a heavier tracking weight in the reproducers was just an evolutionary continuation of the developments done on earlier Edison reproducers. And the Edisonic horns are nothing more than slightly longer versions of the flattened cones used in the earlier DD players. Consequently, the Edisonic players display very little improvement in sound over the earlier designs. Which must have been discouraging to Edison dealers who had to contend with the overwhelmingly better reproduction offered in the new Victor orthophonics.

[phonophan79]

So would this be the Viva-Tonal equivalent of a Consolette?

http://nh.craigslist.org/clt/1195702856.html

...only $150.

[gregbogantz]

This is a Columbia VivaTonal model 721. Original cost was $125 in 1928. The 700 series had mid-size horns that were larger than the 600 series but smaller than the 800 series. The 600 series had simple wooden horns that were comparable to the Victor 4-3 (Consolette). I'm not sure if the 700 series horns were folded as I've never inspected one closely. But this series would be more in keeping with the Victor mid-size series of orthophonics such as the 4-7 ($125) or 4-40 ($165) which both had the small re-entrant horn.