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 Post subject: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Victor V
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Hi folks,

Because of my study of the Chippendale C 250, and it's sister the C 19, I've found myself needing to learn more about the earlier A and B 250 models. Therefore, I've found the necessity to begin a questionnaire on them to document the same basic information that I am currently also compiling on the Chippendale.

The Talking Machine Forum is only one source that I will be using, and as with the C250/C19 database project, I will record the data on a spreadsheet and eventually share my work with the historical/collecting community at large.

If you own an Edison Diamond Disc Phonograph model A or B 250, I encourage you to take the time to help me compile a useful database of information to be used as an eventual reference for those wishing to learn about them, and to be used as a guide for assessment and/or restoration.

Using images from the forum, and from the internet, and with guidance from members “Valecnik” and “phonogfp”, I have compiled this list of specific features that appear to have changed over the few short years that the A and B 250's were produced.

I realize this is a somewhat exhaustive study, and that some may not be able to answer all of the questions, but I hope many of you will do the best that you can and answer the questions as accurately as possible.

Thank you all for your participation! :)

1) Model designation on the data plate? "A250" or "B250".

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM - ??????"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? Example: 6969-A1 (Location shown in pictures below)

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate?

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present?

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door?

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism?

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? (This one may be difficult to locate without disassembly, so please don't go out of your way for this one).

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? If there is; what is the number, and is it in the “Front” or “Rear” of the horn compartment?

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Reddish-Maroon”, “Chocolate-Brown” or “Black”. (Shown in pictures below)

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; if yes, then which type? "Reproducer with Felt Damper", "Pull Knob and Cable", "Pivoting Lever and Cable", or "Slider Control and Cable"

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold” or “Gold and Blue”.

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes” or “No”.

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” (Shown in pictures below)

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 1”, “Type 2”, or “Type 3”? (Shown in pictures below)

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Mahogany", or "Oak".

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “Yes” or “No”.

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”?

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-A”, “17-B”, “17-C”, “17-D”, “17-E, 17-F”? (See images below)

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? If there is, please describe it in detail.

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? If “Yes”, then please submit name, address, etc. and the location it is found on the cabinet.

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present.

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip” or “No Lip”.

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? (As shown “Image 1” and “Image 2” below)

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy.

Special thanks to “dustie89”, “CDBPDX” and “Valecnik”, (and any others I may have forgotten) for some of the following images I pirated off of the forum, and George F. Paul for his B 250 images.

Best,
Fran

Attachment:
Type 1 and 2 Start-Stop Levers.jpg
Type 1 and 2 Start-Stop Levers.jpg [ 469.81 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]

Attachment:
Type 3 and Maroon.jpg
Type 3 and Maroon.jpg [ 522.94 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]

Attachment:
17A and 17B.jpg
17A and 17B.jpg [ 299.65 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]

Attachment:
17C and 17D.jpg
17C and 17D.jpg [ 339.06 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]

Attachment:
17E and 17F.jpg
17E and 17F.jpg [ 289.4 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]

Attachment:
Top and Foot.jpg
Top and Foot.jpg [ 504.47 KiB | Viewed 1466 times ]
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


Last edited by fran604g on Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:30 am, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:01 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Fran, I'm happy to provide you with this information, and I look forward to learning more about Edison Disc Phonographs.

1) Model designation on the data plate? "B250".

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM - 3424"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? None.

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2 plus spindle.

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 4+4.

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? No label on door. An undated Form 632 is glued just behind the grille on the left interior side.

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? None.

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? None.

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? No.

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Reddish-Maroon.”

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold” with no corner decorations.

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” Motor plate.

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 3.”

14) What is the cabinet wood type? Mahogany.

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? No.

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”? Black.

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-D.”

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? No.

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes, as shown in the first measurement image. Pumpkin color with a satin-like texture. Original to a C-150, but perfectly matches the remnants still present on the grille.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? No.

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? Cabinet Factory No.2. Form 890. There is also a small penciled "3/15."

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “No Lip”.

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44.5"

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? No.

Good luck with this worthy research, Fran! :)

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:05 am 
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Victor V
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Thank you, George, I'll add your B250 to the database. :)
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:38 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Hi folks,

I amended the survey to include the following feature:

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; if yes, then which type? "Reproducer with Felt Damper", "Pull Knob and Cable", "Pivoting Lever and Cable", or "Slider Control and Cable"

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


Last edited by fran604g on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:13 am 
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Victor Monarch
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
10b) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; if yes, then which type? "Reproducer with Felt Damper", "Pull Knob and Cable", "Pivoting Lever and Cable", or "Slider Control and Cable". Yes - Slider Control & Cable.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Victor VI
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Location: Merritt Island, FL
1) Model designation on the data plate? A250

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? SM - 8355

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? 8355-A1

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2 plus spindle.

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 4+1. (It is possible that there could be more from the right hand port, but I was only able to see 1.)

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? Label is present, but in poor condition and date, if there was one, is now missing.

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? None

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? 2545

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? Yes there is a number, 2308, but it is stamped into the top of the bottom cross-member of the frame the rear inspection door closes into, at the bottom and visible only when the inspection door is open.

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Black.” Original with matching numbers, but I understand black is fairly rare for an A250.

10b) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, "Yes or No"; if yes, then which type? "Reproducer with Felt Damper", "Pull Knob and Cable", "Pivoting Lever and Cable", or "Slider Control and Cable” Pivoting Lever and Cable


11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? Gold with corner decorations.

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” Cabinet

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? Type 1

14) What is the cabinet wood type? Mahogany.

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? No

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”? Mahogany Wood Grain.

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; 17-A

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? No.

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes, green silk, but it is not original.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? No

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? None that I can find.

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? Yes

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44.25"

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? No

Clay
Arthur W. J. G. Ord-Hume's Laws of Collecting
1. Space will expand to accommodate an infinite number of possessions, regardless of their size.
2. Shortage of finance, however dire, will never prevent the acquisition of a desired object, however improbable its cost.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Victor V
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Wonderful, Clay, thank you!

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Hi folks,

Changed part "10b" to read "10a" :oops:

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Victor VI
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fran604g wrote:
Hi folks,

Changed part "10b" to read "10a" :oops:

Fran


Fran I'll get you my info soon. I'm totally knocked out with Lyme disease of all things. Ticks me off! Now back to sleep....


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 2290
Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Valecnik wrote:
fran604g wrote:
Hi folks,

Changed part "10b" to read "10a" :oops:

Fran


Fran I'll get you my info soon. I'm totally knocked out with Lyme disease of all things. Ticks me off! Now back to sleep....


Thanks Bruce, no hurry. :)

Lyme disease, geez, I hope it can be resolved, I've heard horror stories... :(

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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