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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:50 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Thank you!

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:34 am 
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Victor IV
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A Hobbyist Specializing in Sales and Repair of Spring Motor Phonographs
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:43 am
Posts: 1557
Location: Castle Rock, WA
I am working on 2 Edison A250 motors, one serial number 1388 and the other 14317. There are some differences in the motor board, in particular, the oil ports. Also, it appears that a different 'artist' painted the little flourishes in the corners. They contain the same lines but the earlier motor plate shows a much fancier version than the later one.

Also, as mentioned above, the earlier one has the 3 piece brake and the later has the 'standard' 2 piece brake.

Any way to know who painted the gold design on these?

Thanks! Cliff


Attachments:
A250-Motors_1388-14317.JPG
A250-Motors_1388-14317.JPG [ 312.46 KiB | Viewed 426 times ]
Cliff's Vintage Music Shoppe, Castle Rock, WA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIz_IpaVrW8
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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:57 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Chuck, the pin striping and corner decoration(s) were applied at the factory. I'm sure there would have been many, many people employed for the task, and certainly there would have been slight variations in the patterns. Even the famous inventor's signature changed over time.

It's also very possible that damaged decorations were repaired at some point in the last 100+ years.

The corner decoration in your image of #1388 looks to me to be original, just poorly applied.

Just my $.02... :coffee:

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:16 am 
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Victor Monarch
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Judging by the "breaks" in the lines of the corner decoration on No.14317 (where the lines overlap), it appears to be a decal.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 5:55 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
phonogfp wrote:
Judging by the "breaks" in the lines of the corner decoration on No.14317 (where the lines overlap), it appears to be a decal.

George P.

I agree with you, George. All of the A 250 images I have collected -- in which the corner decorations are visible -- are like this one in particular. The lines are "crisp" and accurately proportioned with the straight "edge" pin striping.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 404
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
Well, I had the fortunate luck to have another A-250 follow me home. So brother and sister will be side by side in the near future.She has a broken spring, I believe, and will need to find one..... or better yet 2. Anyone? Bueller? Bueller? (Am I correct to assume that the springs from the C series won't work in this motor? I purchased parts and do have some later motors with intact springs.) If I see any more differences I will post them too.



1) Model designation on the data plate? "A250"

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM 7241"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? 7241-A1

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2 right top and bottom left

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 4 off front and 1 on back

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? no date even though it is a complete label "see photo"

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? I might be looking in wrong place but can't find one on this one either.

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? 7480

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? rear 7241 (the7 is actually an upside down 2)138 and LG in an oval "see Photo"

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Chocolate-Brown”

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present, Yes, pull lever and cable if I understand this one correctly.

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold”

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes”

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet”

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 2”

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Oak"

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “No”

16) Is the horn painted in “Oak Wood Grain”

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-F” There are 6 removable dividers in each drawer AND it has brown paper dividers from 1-50. 6 #'s are missing and quite a few duplicate #'s.

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? No

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. None, though I can see that there was.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? Yes " see photo below" Holmquist Erie Pa.

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present. No Factory # but some sort of marking left of top drawer. "See Photo" perhaps "Prince's grandfather worked there?" :roll:

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip”

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44 ½
24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy.DD reproducer #30575, dolphin key though teeth are broken, duster with Erie Camera & Phonograph Co. and Edison picture imprinted on it.


Side notes. A few minor differences I've noticed so far. The weight of the drawers had a tendency for the drawers to "flip" out if the sliders don't come with the drawer. On the later model they were secured with 1 screw on each leg underneath. This model has a reproducer shipping carriage, back left behind horn, the older one came with a reproducer case, or so it seems. 1st picture is a label on front of inner piece next to the lift level. Can't quite make out what it says though. Feel free if you have any questions

Thanks for all your work Fran. Gary


Attachments:
File comment: Label front right inside lift lever area
2017-01-14 15.08.56.jpg
2017-01-14 15.08.56.jpg [ 5.1 MiB | Viewed 318 times ]
File comment: No date
2017-01-13 20.21.52.jpg
2017-01-13 20.21.52.jpg [ 4.05 MiB | Viewed 333 times ]
File comment: upside down 2 for a 7? 138 and top left lg in an oval
2017-01-13 20.21.14.jpg
2017-01-13 20.21.14.jpg [ 4.86 MiB | Viewed 333 times ]
File comment: Holmquist dealer tag. Erie Pa.
2017-01-13 21.24.48.jpg
2017-01-13 21.24.48.jpg [ 5.32 MiB | Viewed 333 times ]
File comment: Odd marking.
2017-01-14 12.19.13.jpg
2017-01-14 12.19.13.jpg [ 4.47 MiB | Viewed 333 times ]
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat


Last edited by DGPros on Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:28 pm 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
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Location: Česká Republika
Ron Sitko sells replacement springs for the A series. The thickness and length are different than the later ones. Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 404
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
Valecnik wrote:
Ron Sitko sells replacement springs for the A series. The thickness and length are different than the later ones. Good luck!

Thanks. My order just keeps getting bigger and bigger. :roll: Any idea how many machines are in this study :?:
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat


Last edited by DGPros on Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:48 am 
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Victor V
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 2433
Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
DGPros wrote:
Any idea how many machines on in this study :?:

Congratulations on another acquisition, and thank you for your data, Gary!

The dealer plate is really interesting, in that it's the first one I've seen on a Diamond Disc machine that included "Photograph" in the title. Very Cool! And the record duster sounds exciting. The "LG" "cartouche" must be the cabinet manufacturer's inspector's mark, I assume.

It seems that you found a very nice A 250. I'm more than a little jealous, as I don't own an A 250, but would love to at some point.

Your latest entry puts the count of A 250s that I've observed and recorded at 45 units; 9 of which I could not ascertain the serial numbers, but included any features I could discern.

The range of A 250 serial numbers in my spreadsheet runs from #161 to #14,444.

Incidentally, I have also recorded only 12 B 250s, whose serial numbers run from #457 through #4052.

I hope I have the opportunity to record many more of each.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
Posts: 404
Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
Well the spring is busted and the lower lock is mangled, now I know why the key is broken. This one is in incredibly clean shape otherwise. I did some cleaning and was surprised how much dirt still came off one that looked so clean to start.. Now to figure out where I will wedge her in :oops: The mute ball must have been factory installed since it is painted. Here are a few pictures till she is put back together. Looking forward to reading the information culled for this series Fran.


Attachments:
2017-01-15 14.26.39.jpg
2017-01-15 14.26.39.jpg [ 5.53 MiB | Viewed 291 times ]
2017-01-15 14.27.00.jpg
2017-01-15 14.27.00.jpg [ 5.66 MiB | Viewed 291 times ]
2017-01-15 11.19.55.jpg
2017-01-15 11.19.55.jpg [ 5.78 MiB | Viewed 291 times ]
2017-01-15 11.19.42.jpg
2017-01-15 11.19.42.jpg [ 4.61 MiB | Viewed 291 times ]
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
Frederic Bastiat
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