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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:09 am 
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Victor V
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msherman wrote:
1) Model designation on the data plate? "A250"

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM161"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? Example: 161-A1

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 1

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? N/A

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? N/A

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? c N/A

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? N/A

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? 161

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Reddish Maroon”

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present? "No"

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold”

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes”

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet”

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 1”

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Mahogany"

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “Yes”

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-A”

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? "No"

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes. Pale greenish brown, very thin

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? No

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present. N/A

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “Lip”

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44”

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy. None

Thank you very much, Mike! And additionally, thank you for the photos of your beautiful A-250.

Happy Holidays!

Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Victor II
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Gary
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:22 am
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Location: Whitehouse St. NJ
1) Model designation on the data plate? "A250"

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? "SM11799"

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? 9814-A1 (also on turntable)

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 7 2 w/covers back right

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 7

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? 6-3-14

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? 9804

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? 9804

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? 523

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? “Brown"

10a) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present? "Yes""pivoting lever and cable" seams to be painted horn color.

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? “Gold”

11a) Is there decorative pin striping applied to the corners of the motor-plate? “Yes”

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet”

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? “Type 2”

14) What is the cabinet wood type? "Oak"

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? “No”

16) Is the horn painted in “Oak Wood Grain”

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; “17-D”

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? "No"

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Non original couch like cloth. Already took it off.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? "Yes" under the Edison decal the decal reads
From
229 So. Wabash Ave.

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? This can usually be found on a sticker inside of the horn compartment of the cabinet. Please provide the “Form No.” and any other notable numbers if present. "Edison No. 3 cabinet Factory form 890"

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? “No Lip”

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44 ½”

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Dated and serialized materials are particularly noteworthy. None

I would be interested on thoughts of the unmatched #'s from the cabinet to the data plate too. Are you finding later model #'s doing this, or perhaps someone changed out the mechanisms with another machine?


On a previous A-250 SM7241 I did find the #7480 for question #7 if you would like to update that also.
In short, is not liberty the freedom of every person to make full use of his faculties, so long as he does not harm other persons while doing so?
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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:44 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Thank you, Gary, I've added your new machine's information to the database.

DGPros wrote:
I would be interested on thoughts of the unmatched #'s from the cabinet to the data plate too. Are you finding later model #'s doing this, or perhaps someone changed out the mechanisms with another machine?

I haven't had a lot of input with these numbers, but what I do have indicates that the numbers would have remained consistent throughout the manufacture of the A 250.

i.e.: SN 11,187, and SN 11,627 both have corresponding data plates, and motor plates, as do all of the other A 250's in which I have been able to record the pertinent information - except one other - SN 7645; as reported in this thread:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22286&hilit=+a250.

DGPros wrote:
On a previous A-250 SM7241 I did find the #7480 for question #7 if you would like to update that also.

Thank you, Gary, I've amended your previous entry.

Best regards,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:03 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 82
1) Model designation on the data plate? A250

2) What is the serial number on the dataplate? SM - 11529

3) What is the number stamped into the top of the motor-plate beneath the turntable? 11529-A

4) While you have the turntable removed, how many oil “ports” are present on the top of the motor-plate? 2

5) Looking at the underside of the motor-plate (if you are able to) how many oil “tubes” are present? 5

6) What is the “Date” on the paper label stuck to the inside of the cabinet rear inspection door? 4/3/14 (form 632)

7) What is the stamped number on the “1st Horn Joint” located directly below the motor mechanism? Didn't see one and didn't take the horn apart.

8) What is the stamped number on the “2nd Horn Joint” just before the horn flairs out? Didn't see one and didn't take the horn apart.

9) Is there a number conspicuously stamped into the cabinet on the bottom of the horn compartment? Didn't see one but maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot(?)

10) What color is the motor-plate finish? Black

10b) Is there a "Tone control or Mute Ball" present? Yes
If yes, then which type? Round felt ball Pivoting Lever and Cable. (I think. It's a brass lever that you push up or down to dampen or undampen. It pivots to the left so you can put the lid down.)

11) What color is the pin striping on the perimeter of the motor-plate? Gold with corner decorations.

12) Is the operating lever (lowers the reproducer for play) mounted to the “Cabinet” or is it mounted through the “Motor-plate” Cabinet

13) Which type of start/stop lever configuration does your unit have? Type 3

14) What is the cabinet wood type? Mahogany.

15) Are there “Tone Slots” cut into in the sides of the cabinet? No

16) Is the horn painted in “Mahogany Wood Grain”, “Oak Wood Grain”, or “Black”? Mahogany Wood Grain.

17) What type of record storage system does yours have; 17-D

18) Is there an “Official Laboratory Medallion” mounted to the turntable trim piece? No.

19) Is there “grille cloth” present? If there is; what color is it, and please provide a brief description of the material. Yes, green silk, but it is not original.

20) Are there any dealer tag(s) or decal(s) present? No

21) What is the "Cabinet Factory No." (if any)? Edison No. 2 Cabinet factory form 890

22) Does your cabinet have a conspicuous “Lip” around the inside top perimeter of your turntable compartment? No

23) How tall is your Phonograph, measuring from the bottom of the right front foot up along the cabinet corner frame piece (do not include the caster if one is present, please) turntable compartment corner? 44"

24) Are there any sales receipts, shipping documentation, etc., original to the phonograph? Yes.

"Instructions for Unpacking, Setting up, Operating and Re-packing Type A-250 Edison Disc Phonograph",
"Instructions for Attaching and Operating the Edison Muting Device on Edison Disc Phonograph Model A-250",
"How to Use the Edison Disc Record File" (It also came with a lot of dividers.),
A February, 1914 catalogue of Edison Diamond Disc Records.,
Form 2420 "The Edison Diamond Disc Phonograph" catalogue of phonographs and recording artists.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:37 am 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Thank you, Marty!

Along with your photos, this is one very thorough, and comprehensive addition to both this post, and the data I collect. This is how to find them! Unmolested! I'm very happy for you, and at the price you paid I think it would be nearly impossible to beat.

You replied to the motor plate finish as "Black", but that's not correct. I would expect the finish on a mahogany A-250 to be "Reddish-Maroon", the oak models would have been "Chocolate-Brown" finish. It's difficult to identify these colors 100+ years later, but I'd say yours is the "Reddish-Maroon" finish I'd expect to find. Given the motor plate is appropriately stamped with the corresponding serial number, it's plain to me that the machine has never been altered. I've seen others that appeared to be as dark as yours is, lighting frequency (i.e.: incandescent v. fluorescent v. LED v. camera flash) plays a very big part in the photographing of these 2 different finishes, and this phenomenon can change the appearance of a very aged-dark maroon finish to looking more like brown.

Of course, I could be wrong without further investigation, and closer inspection. Maybe someone at the factory installed the wrong finished motor plate in the cabinet, I don't know.

In my opinion, you have a very nice, all original, period correct A-250 (other than the grille cloth - as you are aware), typical of the late A-250's that left the factory in 1914. Even the "flange-type" reproducer is what I'd expect for this vintage. I'd bet this machine was some family's very cherished Phonograph!

Imagine if you could discover who was the family of the original owner? I see it was sold by "George D. Switzer Co., Ypsilanti, Mich.". Have you tried to locate the location of the store, to see if the building is still in existence?

A quick search provided me with an advertisement in the Oct. 14, 1920 issue of The Saline Observer (shown below) https://digmichnews.cmich.edu/cgi-bin/michigan?a=d&d=WashtenawSO19201014.1.8&e=-------en-10--1--txt-txIN----------, of course this advert would've been 6+ years after yours would have likely been offered by him, but it's a start...

I've linked this post to your post with your photos, so that anyone finding this thread in the future, will be able to see exactly what to look for in a late model A-250. http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34568

What a great example!

Thank you very much for your contribution,
Fran
Attachment:
Geo. D. Switzer Edison DD advert.jpg
Geo. D. Switzer Edison DD advert.jpg [ 415.34 KiB | Viewed 63 times ]
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 82
Fran,

If my bed plate is maroon (which I would prefer) is there a way to safely clean/reveal it in an inconspicuous spot?

Thanks,

Marty


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Victor V
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Marty Bufalini wrote:
Fran,

If my bed plate is maroon (which I would prefer) is there a way to safely clean/reveal it in an inconspicuous spot?

Thanks,

Marty

Marty, I'm not very experienced in that area. I'll defer to others, but I will say that the maroon finish seems prone to failure, I don't think I'd do anything if it were me.

I've seen a lot of maroon finishes coming off of motor plates. I've heard there may have been something wrong with the way in which the surfaces were prepared for painting.

I don't know if the "chocolate brown" finish had a similar issue, and I really can't say for certain which finish yours is, from your photos.

Maybe one of the other members here can help.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1885
Location: Harrison Township, MI
Marty,

Your bed plate IS maroon. It shows in the photos on the forum, and I've seen it in person with my own eyes. Maroon.

Take off your Ray Bans and swap out those 15W bulbs in your lamps!


...this is why you shouldn't have nice things! :)


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Victor V
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Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
Thanks for chiming in, Jerry! I like being corroborated by those with first hand knowledge.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: A and B 250 Database Project
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:56 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:21 am
Posts: 82
Fran: I guess you better change my data base input on the bedplate to "maroon."

Jerry: Not my fault. My leader dog told me it was black!


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