My latest tool for playing cylinders

[JohnM]

If you made the rubber rollers squishy enough it may solve the variance problem(?)

For my idea to work, there can only be one axis of contact on the inside and one axis of contact on the outside and they must be parallel to one another. Multiple wheels for support would not work.

John

[WDC]

Sir--- What is the motor you used in the picture shown in your post? I have a need for one not related to your device, but for a flex-circuit I am working on. Any help you can give would be appreciated. MICHAEL P.S Great work!!!

No problem: The motor is a Maxon A-Max 110174.

[WDC]

An interesting idea. I could also imagine a transfer that is synchronized with a structural scan to digitally straighten out the surface.
In case if an off-centered cylinder I just use a small piece of paper to get the cylinder as even as possible. It works quite well!

[WDC]

Norman,

just thinking about your scanning solution....I wonder what optical / software tricks they used to bring those phonautograph recordings back to life last year....but even so I am sure the equipment required would be very expensive.

RJ

Richard, at least the basics are quite simple. The grooves were lateral and therefore could scanned easily. These are the basic functions of the IRENE project. I can also imagine that they have redrawn several of the grooves manually before processing it by the software.
The 2D scanning equipment is not cheap, of course. But it is surely a lot less expensive than the 3D scanning apparatus for cylinders. I am really thrilled by this technique and hope that it might get better and cheaper in the future.

[JohnM]

OK, please excuse my rudimentary Google Sketchup skills, but this is what I'm talking about. The roller going through the cylinder would be the consistency of neoprene insulation rubber so there would be some 'yield' to it to compensate for ribs, ridges, and bores not concentric to the cylinder surface. The outer wheels on the shaft would be aluminum or nylon and be faced with a rubber with a much harder durometer rating. Some provision would need to be made to keep the cylinder from drifting side to side. The stylus would track directly under the rod. There would be one point along the surface of the cylinder where a line drawn from the center axes of the top and bottom rollers would intersect the cylinder that would always be 90-degrees to theat line and that would be the line where the stylus would track. This tangent line would always be 90-degrees no matter how out of round the cylinder is . . . correct? I just wanted to post the drawing to make sure we are on the same page conceptually.

John M

[WDC]

John, Thank you for the drawing. It does also visualize a practical problem I was thinking about. Only a relatively heavy tension would avoid the cylinder from luffing forth and back.

The major issue with this would be the driving wheel. Your sketch shows two outer wheels and one long rod in the inside. The rod would only be passive because it could automatically adjust its speed if the cylinder was just partially warped on the recorded side.

Another thing would be driving wheel. Let's take the warped Blue Amberol from my video and imagine to put it on this construction. We would require multiple passive wheels to hold the record steadily in place. But just one wheel could be used to turn the cylinder. This wheel would be required to move along with the pickup. Otherwise the wheel may turn the cylinder at inappropriate speed for a certain deformed area.

And not to forget the possible rumble caused by the wheels and the rod that would move over uneven surface.

Norman

[JohnM]

Yes, the inner roller would have to be passive as the speed of the cylinder surface is the concern. I don't think the device would require multiple wheels on the rod, or one to track beside the stylus and drive the cylinder. I think as long as at least one end wheel was driving and the other exerting sufficient pressure to 'lock' the cylinder in place on the inner roller that everything would line up where and when it should because of the compliance of the rubber on the inner roller that would compensate for any error caused by the out of round cylinder. Of couse, building this in one's head is a bit of a challenge, but I can see a couple of spring loaded shallow cones that would keep the cylinder from drifting by contacting the edge. Also, I imagine the drive parts and the stylus arm supports would need to be vibrationally isolated. Rumble could be digitally filtered out? Where's Bogantz when you need him? Collecting moss in the mountains of Western North Carolina? LOL!

John M

[bostonmike1]

Great work and design!! What is the advantage of your high-rise design as compared to a set-up lower to the base? Please explain if you would. Michael

[edisonphonoworks]

Very wonderful machine! It does a great job even on very warped Blue Amberols!

[bkasindorf]

Hi,
I got to see this wonderful machine live in Wayne a few weeks ago, worked very well.
Then I got thinking about digitally compensating for wobble. If you run a small wheel along the OUTER surface of the cylinder to make a 'click track', you can digitally compensate for any wobble or wow. This allows a spring driven phono and the older style electronic pickup to be used.
-Barry