Odd table top Sonora.

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larryh
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Odd table top Sonora.

Post by larryh »

I was out antiquing today and ran across a some thing odd to me a table model Sonora. At least that is what it said on the front. I found an ad that appears to have it shown but not easy to identify from the picture.

It had the case design of the top left phonograph.. The lid was strange to me as it had a squared off look with a seam in the top that allowed part of it to be at an angle to the cabinet. The sides sloped upward an the opening for the horn ( what there seemed to be of it) was only about a 8" across oval and next to that a solid wood front panel with the name Sonora in the center in large letters. The tone arm appears to be what I see in the Sonora lower end machines but the reproducer had something like Mestroto ( not probably the correct spelling, and perhaps a european product? The crank was in it but without the handle. The motor ran poorly but then it has had no attention.

I guess the question is two fold. Would it sound like anything much with that tiny opening horn and is it an usual collector type item or just a cheap phonograph? Would the spring be sufficient to run it properly, I see it was the cheapest model available?

thanks

Larry
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Phonograph in question probably is the one on the top left.
Phonograph in question probably is the one on the top left.

larryh
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by larryh »

Wow I just ran across a Sonora on You Tube with that reproducer and its very fine sounding even on a late record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLPc49GrKWM

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Lucius1958
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by Lucius1958 »

The earliest Sonoras used Paillard works, plus that feed screw arrangement to get around the Victor/Columbia patents. They were still ruled as infringing, because the generous sideways play of the reproducer meant it was technically guided by the record. The expiration of the V/C patents shortly thereafter allowed Sonora and many others to use conventional tone arms. :geek:

Bill

larryh
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by larryh »

This little table top Sonora has been in my mind since I first saw it a couple weeks ago. So today I decided to buy it. It was somewhat reasonable I suppose. It however is in need of quite a few repairs. First I wonder if anyone here has any experience with that smallest Sonora as shown in the upper left of the ad? Myself I have never run into that style of phonograph. I found a latter I assume model with a flat front and more typical victrola shaped lid, that was said to be from 1910. Does that mean this one is earlier?

So far I have several other questions. The horn is extremely small. It fits against a oval shaped opening. On this phonograph it has a cover of dark screening tacked inside the cabinet. I am questioning if that would have been how they would have sold it rather than having a cloth covering? Its sort of rounded in in the center and wants to keep the horn from butting flat to the front.

The crank has the handle broken off and the remaining bolt that would have held it its stuck inside the arm. I wonder what the best way to remove and replace that would be.

When you do try to wind it it feels like its bouncing over rocks! Not a smooth turn like most motors but one that seems to get hung up on every cog of the winder. That surely is not right either. The motor is marked as "Mardue-Deposee", what ever that is? It has the "Masterophone Reproducer, "Mastoso" Grand Prize 1006 Milan" It is buzzing and the volume is very low. The horn also isn't tight against the front which would force the sound out the oval better if it were. That may be to the fact that a about a half inch of the top side of the horn is broken off leaving it open. The slide to control the volume is was frozen and I was barely able to get it slid out of the slot it moves in.. The wood insert that would close off the sound is a bit warped and has around a quarter inch of the one edge missing. The metal rod that moves it is bulging out of the wood which is probably the main reason it is almost impossible to move. I might be able to sand down that block in order to let it move easier. It seems to have a fine covering of material on both sides. The handle for pulling that out is missing as well.

The crank is the type that has a rounded slot that catches on a pin in the rod that cranks the motor. The crank seems to be too close to the cabinet with almost no room between the bend in the crank and the side of the case. That doesn't seem right either.. Some of the support to the motor board are broken and gone. Who ever had it trying to hold it down with about four kinds of bolts and screws, none matching so that will need a new set of screws and wood added to the sides of the case to match what is there of the original.

When it runs its the most noisy motor I have ever heard. Of course it has had no oil or grease so far. The motor is made rather like a clock spring and gears where it has post that run though it with a plate on both sides, that makes it hard to get at. The adjustments look pretty primitive to me as well. Anyone experienced with these early motors that I might contact?

Tomorrow when the light is good I will try to get some photos added here. The other thing is the case has had someone use what I think was Denatured Alcohol that lightened up several patches of the trim and under the large Sonora decal that is on the outside front.. A rather odd set up..

I know its not going to be very much to listen too but it seems like a very unusual find at least around here. The fact that its the cheapest model isn't too encouraging as to the outcome but I hated to see it not saved by someone who might at least appreciate it for what it is.

Larry

gramophone78
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by gramophone78 »

I believe this machine (style O) is also in one of the Paul/Fabrizio books. You may want to check there as well.

larryh
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by larryh »

Is that available on line or only for purchase?

Larry

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Lucius1958
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by Lucius1958 »

gramophone78 wrote:I believe this machine (style O) is also in one of the Paul/Fabrizio books. You may want to check there as well.
The Style O is also illustrated in Reiss's The Compleat Talking Machine - at least in the edition I have...

"Maestrophone" was a name used by Paillard: "Marque Déposée" means "Registered Trademark".

Bill

gramophone78
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by gramophone78 »

Lucius1958 wrote:
gramophone78 wrote:I believe this machine (style O) is also in one of the Paul/Fabrizio books. You may want to check there as well.
The Style O is also illustrated in Reiss's The Compleat Talking Machine - at least in the edition I have...

"Maestrophone" was a name used by Paillard: "Marque Déposée" means "Registered Trademark".

Bill

You can try and contact George P. I believe it's in "Discovering Phonographs". Also, the reproducer is called a: Maestrophone (Paillard) Maestoso.

There was also (later) a Maestoso #2.
Paillard Maestoso Reproducer & Box (3).JPG
Maestoso #2 Reproducer With Box (1).JPG

larryh
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by larryh »

Here are some pictures I have taken of the Sonora. A rather odd little unit it seems.. I can't decide if its supposed to be that dark or simply aged that way. There are a couple places where the finish must have been wiped with Denatured Alcohol and they are quite lighter. Also under the motor board arm support or elbow support the oak is much lighter. The motor is bone dry and really not much evidence of grease on the gears anymore. I may try to oil and grease some of those places and see if perhaps the motor might crank more normally. It makes several noises as it unwinds, not really thumbs but a loud swooshing kind of effect which is probably the spring turning loose from old grease.. When it would nearly down without the turn table on it also sort of howled for a while, not sure what that was about. The slide volume control is also part broken and part swollen or warped and will not slide, I have it removed for this photo. I know it was their cheapest model but still worthy of some respect. I just wonder how many of these are surviving? All an all its not in too bad a shape for its age.
Attachments
What is left of the crank, not sure if the broken off part of the bolt that held the wood handle is threaded into this or simply stuck?  I wonder if this is a crank one can find on ebay?
What is left of the crank, not sure if the broken off part of the bolt that held the wood handle is threaded into this or simply stuck? I wonder if this is a crank one can find on ebay?
Motor.
Motor.
The very crude and tiny wood horn, You can see a hole in the top where the motor must have been hitting it somehow?
The very crude and tiny wood horn, You can see a hole in the top where the motor must have been hitting it somehow?
Reproducer, unfamiliar to me and not sure how it comes apart.  Not sure what the substance was that was put between the spring and the reproducer body?
Reproducer, unfamiliar to me and not sure how it comes apart. Not sure what the substance was that was put between the spring and the reproducer body?
The lid I had removed as well at this point.
The lid I had removed as well at this point.
Rear view, I have all the screws out of the parts.
Rear view, I have all the screws out of the parts.
I find the rather Odd Shape of these early units a bit interesting.
I find the rather Odd Shape of these early units a bit interesting.
Front view, under the Sonora you can see where someone lightened the finish. The oval opening has wire behind it, does that seem right?
Front view, under the Sonora you can see where someone lightened the finish. The oval opening has wire behind it, does that seem right?

gramophone78
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Re: Odd table top Sonora.

Post by gramophone78 »

Larry, the crank (like the motor) was made by Paillard (Switzerland). Not an easy crank to find.....even in Europe. Therefore, you may want to repair the one you have. I believe the knob pin is peined in place. If you can find a wood knob and pin from a donor... even better. Here is a pic of how the knob should look. Sorry, I don't think I have a better pic.....I will look and see.
Paillard Crank.JPG
Paillard Crank.JPG (142.24 KiB) Viewed 2602 times

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