Featured Phonograph № 32

[Valecnik]

Don,

I don't know definitively the answers to your questions. Guido Severeigns (the seller of this model D) probably does and he is a reputable guy. Steve, who posted earlier on this thread also knows a lot about Pathé's and you might PM him if he does not reply to your post. Also, Jalal Aro (phonogalerie) knows lots about Pathé. They are still a mystery to me if I had to guess though I'd say this is probably a correct, transitional D towards the end of its run. The horn is definitely a Pathé horn. I've seen pictures in Pathé literature but in the literature I've seen it was offered with the later models 8, 12 et cetera. It's called a toursade horn.

[Tampa Don]

Valecnik (Bruce?),
Thanks, for the information. I think Pathé's were so stylish - definitely ahead of the competition. Unfortunately, I'm not that knowledgeable re. Pathés and find it difficult to acquire much information. There seems to be much out there re. Victors and Edisons, but, probably because they were in France and the business records and ephemera are not so readily available, Pathé's seem to be surrounded with an air of mystery (at least to me.) I am familiar with the toursade horn. (If I recall correctly, didn't you feature one of you phonos with such a horn?) I've only seen pictures of them though in nickel, not copper.
Don

[Sidewinder]

I've only seen pictures of them though in nickel, not copper.
Don

I think that the nickel ones you have seen in pictures are in fact aluminium. I have seen other French manufactured machines with painted tin torsade horns. e.g. Le Supraphone.

The aluminium torsade horns on Pathé's that I have seen have the Pathé style elbow with horn to elbow type screw in system - so I would think they were supplied by Pathé as an optional extra, as I have also seen them in a Pathé catalog.

In the photo on ebay it looks more brass than copper?

[Steve]

The machine on Ebay is a "standard" Modele D but it comes equipped with the most desirable Pathé horn of the lot: "Pavillon Torsade", which as I understand it translates roughly into "twisted aluminium horn". These horns are the French equivalent to a Music Master on a triple spring Victor M.S! Yes, they are THAT desirable to the European collectors who know about Pathé. As far as I know (I'm no Pathé expert but thanks for the vote of confidence anyway, Bruce! ) these horns were never supplied as standard on any models but were a luxurious upgrade afforded to the early disc machines including this Modele D. The Pavillon Torsade can add as much as $2000 to the value of the "right" machine. I'm not sure a Modele D will achieve that though as the base model is not uncommon on the Euro continent being originally a whole 100 Francs cheaper (175) than the Modele E at 275F.

Guido does get good prices for his machines because as far as I can see he deals with some of the top collectors and his machines are nearly always in the best and most original condition of any dealers anywhere.

[gramophoneshane]

[Valecnik]

The machine on Ebay is a "standard" Modele D but it comes equipped with the most desirable Pathé horn of the lot: "Pavillon Torsade", which as I understand it translates roughly into "twisted aluminium horn". These horns are the French equivalent to a Music Master on a triple spring Victor M.S! Yes, they are THAT desirable to the European collectors who know about Pathé. As far as I know (I'm no Pathé expert but thanks for the vote of confidence anyway, Bruce! ) these horns were never supplied as standard on any models but were a luxurious upgrade afforded to the early disc machines including this Modele D. The Pavillon Torsade can add as much as $2000 to the value of the "right" machine. I'm not sure a Modele D will achieve that though as the base model is not uncommon on the Euro continent being originally a whole 100 Francs cheaper (175) than the Modele E at 275F.

Guido does get good prices for his machines because as far as I can see he deals with some of the top collectors and his machines are nearly always in the best and most original condition of any dealers anywhere.

Steve is right that the Toursade horn will bring as much as the music master or spearpoint victor horn in Eurrope if not more.

As Sidewinder and Steve both point out, the Toursade was an optional extra and was not offered as standard with any machine as far as I know.

Don, I agree with you that there's still alot of mystery behind the Pathé machines. Much more is known about Edison, Columbia and Victor. That's for sure. I had no idea until I moved to Europe how desireable and high quality the Pathé machines were and what Pathé was capable of. The later 1920s Pathé stuff offered in the US, with a few exceptions, seems was more "middle range" and below. I did not post another Pathé in "Featured Phonos" but did send in a few pics of my Pathéphone number 12 in the "How many phonographs are in your livingroom" thread awhile back. http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 2&start=20 Perhaps sometime in the future it could be a "Featured Phono" with better pictures and more details about the machine, given there does seem to be some interest in Pathé here.

I copied below some pictures from a repro Pathé brochure I have to give you an idea, if you don't already know, (as I didn't) what Pathé was capable of in 1910.

Prices in 1910
Model A 225 Francs (don't let that 2o inch record on the machine mislead you. This is a very large machine!)
Model B 300 Francs
Model C 500 Francs
Model E 850 Francs (The model E is 1.85 meters,over six feet, tall)

Steve, any idea of the approximate value of a nice Pathé Concert Model E these days, assuming one could be found? Note that the Model E Steve refers to above is an earlier top of the line horn machine, not the "concert model E shown below)

[Steve]

Bruce, I don't honestly know how much a Concert Modele E would bring today but I'd have to GUESS several thousand Euros?

[Tampa Don]

Thanks fellas for your input and info re. Pathés. They are beautiful (but I'm afraid a bit out of my budget.) It's a shame Victor decided to "plain" it down with its designs after producing the fancy Vic Monarch Special.
Don

[Sidewinder]

This is the Pathé Concert - Model D

[Lenoirstreetguy]

You guys know how I like original paper materials. The catalogue is great...as is the machine!
Jim