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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:33 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:47 pm
Posts: 116
Ortho_Fan wrote:
bostonmike1 wrote:
bbphonoguy wrote:
I know this is funny, but it's also worrisome. If kids are this ignorant about a little thing like this, how uninformed are they about important stuff?

In defense of kids today--especially my own---the fact that they do not know something does not automatically pronounce them as being "IGNORANT" (a very harsh term in my estimation.) When I grew up in the 50's I did not know what a pair of "spats" were but my school scores and S.A.T.s did not deem me to be ignorant by any definition. With the advent of the internet the children of today are far and above more INFORMED than we could ever have hoped to be in our generation,when we were their age. What is most "worrisome" to me is the fact that it has not even been established that that a YOUNGSTER posted the offering----yet we chose to condemn an entire generation because of their supposed ignorance. I do not know one Victrola from another----does that put me in the category of ignorance or in the category of I just do not care? In my opinion, let us stay on the topic of phonographs and leave to the future historians as to whether the kids of today know anything or are just "ignorant". Michael

Hi Michael:

Unless the meaning has changed greatly, the word "ignorant" is in no way, shape or form a pejorative or put down. According to Websters, etc., the basic definition is:

"The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed...."

I'd say that to say that the seller of this circa 1970s stereo--young or old--is ignorant about the history of sound recording equipment, is a statement of fact. Along this line, this person displays no awareness of the history of electronics, radio, plastics, or furniture construction. I'm NOT saying the person is stupid, just uneducated.

This point was hammered in by my third grade teacher, who actually had a sampler pinned on the wall above her desk -- "The cure for ignorance is education."

Although I respect your right to your opinion ---I disagree. It is how words are used---irrespective of a dictionary definition. The word "ignorant" was used to demean the person ---of which none of us know a thing who he/she is. Who are we to question or state that someone is not stupid, but just uneducated? Education comes in many forms. I wish not to personalize this issue, but my Vietnam experience for 3 years in the 60's aligned me with many in my unit that were not highly "educated", but had the "smarts and balls" to survive in conditions unfathomable to any college graduate of today, or for that matter many phonograph hobbyists and through luck and the grace of God allows me to be here to write this.The intonation of words at times can be more powerful than a cannon. If I wrote, "Michael has a retarded knowledge of phonographs---could it not be inferred that Michael is retarded? Or could it just mean that Michael has a life outside of phonographs and will garner the information as he sees fit for him at the time he chooses? Every time I read one of these posts concerning CL or Ebay sellers and the ridicule thereafter, I question if one would have the same laughs if you were face to face with him/her and not hiding behind a keyboard? As for words, take from the Greek language the word "pompous" ----self important, haughty, arrogant--- which in my opinion happened in this case and others. If the mission statement of this forum is to have friendly discourse and attract new members, I would strongly suggest the words "stupid and ignorant" not be used. Michael


Last edited by bostonmike1 on Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
I know I'm chiming in late during this conversation, but I would like to add my opinion on a generation to which I belong. And please everyone don't feel like I'm taking any sides here...In the current generation (12-20 years old) the individuals do seem to be uniformed. No one seems to worry about intelligence on any particular subject or matter, because they know that with a simply word or 2 they have an infinite amount of knowledge at there disposal. But there are those in this generation that are just too lazy to even do that. They'd rather sit in their homes and play video games. Personally I think video games have destroyed the lives of many an individual. But that’s beside the point. People of this day ARE uneducated UNTIL they have the personally ambition to learn, which in some cases never happens...All in all I think this discussion has no need for any continuing conversations...

Aaron


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 11:54 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1534
I'd have to say that based on your response, the meaning of "ignorant" HAS changed over the years. All I can say, in my own defense, is that when I use the word I DO NOT mean it as a put-down. If that makes me "pompous," or if people don't want to believe me, so be it.


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:13 am 
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Victor IV
Contact me for TMF tech support.
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: Boston, MA
Ortho_Fan wrote:
I'd have to say that based on your response, the meaning of "ignorant" HAS changed over the years. All I can say, in my own defense, is that when I use the word I DO NOT mean it as a put-down. If that makes me "pompous," or if people don't want to believe me, so be it.

Ortho_Fan,

I don’t think that makes you pompous, I think that makes you literate.

I have more to say about the rest of the thread, but I wanted to get this comment in first. :D

— MordEth

Proudly supporting phonograph discussion boards, hosting phonograph sites and creating phonograph videos since 2007.
Need web hosting or web (or other graphic) design? Support MordEth by using J-D Strong Consulting, Inc. for all of your IT consulting needs.
Want more phonograph discussion? Be sure to visit The Online Edison Phonograph Discussion Board.


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:51 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:47 pm
Posts: 116
Aaron wrote:
I know I'm chiming in late during this conversation, but I would like to add my opinion on a generation to which I belong. And please everyone don't feel like I'm taking any sides here...In the current generation (12-20 years old) the individuals do seem to be uniformed. No one seems to worry about intelligence on any particular subject or matter, because they know that with a simply word or 2 they have an infinite amount of knowledge at there disposal. But there are those in this generation that are just too lazy to even do that. They'd rather sit in their homes and play video games. Personally I think video games have destroyed the lives of many an individual. But that’s beside the point. People of this day ARE uneducated UNTIL they have the personally ambition to learn, which in some cases never happens...All in all I think this discussion has no need for any continuing conversations...

Aaron

AARON--Although your reply on this matter is accepted, you are an too different to understand the point that was made here. I was not defending the young people who spend their summer vacation on the front porch playing Edison cylinders but those who have a more rounded life experience. The way you speak of your age group leads one to believe you are on "the outside" in school. Dump the phonograph crap and play a sport, get a friend or my favorite chase a girl. Just for the record, your generation is not 12-20 years old as you stated.


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 5:47 am 
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Victor IV
Contact me for TMF tech support.
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:01 pm
Posts: 1077
Location: Boston, MA
bostonmike1 wrote:
...the fact that they do not know something does not automatically pronounce them as being "IGNORANT" (a very harsh term in my estimation.)

Michael,

I think you may wish to read the statement that bbphonoguy made again. To quote (with my own added emphasis):

bbphonoguy wrote:
If kids are this ignorant about a little thing like this, how uninformed are they about important stuff?

You are accusing him of pronouncing someone ignorant, while he is stating that they are ignorant of a particular subject and that he wonders about more important subjects on which they might be uninformed.

bostonmike1 wrote:
With the advent of the internet the children of today are far and above more INFORMED than we could ever have hoped to be in our generation, when we were their age.

I’ll concede this point, but only if you are referring to how informed they are with regards to what their friends are up to on Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, etc. In a lot of ways, I think that people today are far less informed on a lot of other subjects. For example, I really don’t think that knowing the contestants on American Idol or being current on [insert ‘reality’ TV show here] counts as being informed. There’s something to be said for the quality of information and usefulness of subjects on which one is informed.

bostonmike1 wrote:
I do not know one Victrola from another----does that put me in the category of ignorance or in the category of I just do not care?

Probably both, if your ignorance of Victrola models is caused by apathy. They’re not mutually exclusive.

bostonmike1 wrote:
In my opinion, let us stay on the topic of phonographs and leave to the future historians as to whether the kids of today know anything or are just "ignorant".

If you really feel this way, why are you making successive posts that take the topic further off topic, and urging other collectors to give up the hobby? Telling Aaron to “Dump the phonograph crap and play a sport, get a friend or my favorite chase a girl.” is offensive and has no place on this forum.

Please let it drop and refrain from insulting other members.

— MordEth

Proudly supporting phonograph discussion boards, hosting phonograph sites and creating phonograph videos since 2007.
Need web hosting or web (or other graphic) design? Support MordEth by using J-D Strong Consulting, Inc. for all of your IT consulting needs.
Want more phonograph discussion? Be sure to visit The Online Edison Phonograph Discussion Board.


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:01 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:08 pm
Posts: 316
Location: Somewhere looking for a 9ft Brass Horn
Mike,

When you say well rounded, I know what you mean and must impose on your statement by saying I am the most well rounded person in my area. (This better not be a fat joke :lol:) But anyway to give you an idea of my life...Monday: Hang with friends, Tuesday: hang with friends UNTIL I go for firefighter basic training, Wednesday: Hang until I go to Boy Scouts (where I am almost an eagle scout) Thursday: Art lessons after spending a day with friends, Friday: If it's during the school year every Friday I play during the field show at the football games. That’s my SIMPLE schedule... and to add girls to the equation, I had two girls over last night just to hang out... I don’t see how at this day in age any other human being in a close relationship with me could do anything but cause problems. During the summer, I don’t sit on the porch and listen to records, in fact I wish I did, but I'm actually always tied up. In the summer I go from one thing to the next... whether it be out at my friend's brother’s bands show...or getting a 911 call with the fire department...or being at my friends hunting camp...or haying a field with another friend...or swimming...or going to the movies...or wasting my time here on this board responding to the likes of you...

bostonmike1 wrote:
Aaron---I trust you are not trying to say you have more knowledge or insight than Mr. Hummel. It would be a MAJOR leap of faith for me to believe that he would purport that your crank was an original since his word, in my experience, is beyond reproach. You must be ---and I am sure ---mistaken. Just as a point of information, it took me many more years than you have been alive, to call or refer to Mr. Hummel as "Charley" as you do at your young age ----out of my respect. Mr Hummel is not the everyday "pompous ass" ----but a very intelligent individual for whom I have great respect for. Michael

FOR THE RECORD THIS IS AN OLD QUOTE!

You yourself obviously take major leaps of faith in life, and need to have respect for more than just 1 person...and for the most part need to stop making yourself look like a pompous ass...

Out of Respect,
Aaron


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:03 am 
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Victor II
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Posts: 234
I think this thread needs to be locked; it's gone way beyond anything phonographic.
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:35 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1534
Discman wrote:
I think this thread needs to be locked; it's gone way beyond anything phonographic.
Dave

Better yet, just delete the whole goddamned thread completely.

I originally posted the link, without comment, because I wondered if it really might be a joke, especially considering the fact that the seller stated that he KNEW it was 100 years old--that and the seller's the writing style, the dark, hard to see photos, and the unrealistic price. Frankly, I thought it was funny, and wanted to see what others, here, thought about it. (Based on comments on the Craigslist antiques forum, I wasn't the only one -- http://sfbay.craigslist.org/forums/?ID=134656478 )

But, if this type of post is considered offensive or is not allowed on this board, then just get rid of it.


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 Post subject: Re: This has to be a joke...
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:40 am 
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Victor V
on instagram as "oncedeadsound"
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: just outside Philadelphia, PA
Ortho_Fan wrote:
Discman wrote:
I think this thread needs to be locked; it's gone way beyond anything phonographic.
Dave

Better yet, just delete the whole goddamned thread completely.

I originally posted the link, without comment, because I wondered if it really might be a joke, especially considering the fact that the seller stated that he KNEW it was 100 years old--that and the seller's the writing style, the dark, hard to see photos, and the unrealistic price. Frankly, I thought it was funny, and wanted to see what others, here, thought about it. (Based on comments on the Craigslist antiques forum, I wasn't the only one -- http://sfbay.craigslist.org/forums/?ID=134656478 )

But, if this type of post is considered offensive or is not allowed on this board, then just get rid of it.

the post was fine, and amusing... and not unlike a multitude of other such posts on this forum and others. some just need to lighten up, and if they take offense to things not considered generally offensive, then leave it alone and go play elsewhere. what's the big deal?


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