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 Post subject: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:42 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:13 pm
Posts: 517
Location: City Point by the Sea
Make: VTMCo.
Model: Granada (4-4)
Serial # 42568
Year(s) Made: 1925-1928
Original Cost: $150.00
Case/Cabinet Size: 34"h x 34"w x 21 ½"d
Turntable/Mandrel: 12" tan/orange felt
Reproducer/Sound-Box: Pot Metal Orthophonic
Motor: double spring
Horn Dimensions: Folded Orthophonic horn
Reproduction Parts: none
Current Value: ?
Interesting Facts: My first Orthophonic machine.

Favorite Characteristics: A nice full sound even with a smallish horn

Regards,
John


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Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will alter and brighten your whole life.
Use each needle only ONCE!

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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Romney, West Virginia
Thanks for sharing your Granada with us John. I see it was your first Orthophonic. I remember when I was collecting Victrolas as a teenager, I wouldn't buy orthophonics. To me they were just the phonographs with the funny looking soundboxes. There was no internet then, and almost all I knew about antique phonographs was that they were "neat" (or were they "keen"? I don't remember) and that, back then, they weren't expensive. If I had known more about Orthophonics, and how they work, and how to use them, I would have become enthusiastic about them much much sooner.

I didn't know the Granada had a folded horn. The only console type Ortho I have now has a straight horn and I assumed the Granada would have been the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:13 pm
Posts: 517
Location: City Point by the Sea
Bbphonoguy,

I actually have two Granadas, the other is a project machine. It's an electric motored Granada with a straight horn. I very much look forward to getting this one done and comparing the sound of the two.

Regards,
John


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GranadaXmotor-01.jpg
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Listening to the Victrola fifteen minutes a day will alter and brighten your whole life.
Use each needle only ONCE!

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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:31 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1409
Hi John:

I remember when you first posted photos of your Granada on Phonoland. It looks absolutely stunning!

Once you've completed the restoration, as you note, it will be interesting to compare the performance differences between the two models. The straight horn model should sound very much like a Consolette, and while you'll probably notice less bass, you'll not be disappointed, because it has more of an up-front, closer to the stage, type tone quality, if that makes sense.

bbphonoguy wrote:
I didn't know the Granada had a folded horn. The only console type Ortho I have now has a straight horn and I assumed the Granada would have been the same.

The straight horn was fitted into three of the four initial Orthophonic Victrola models

Consolette -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-3.htm
Colony -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-5.htm
Granada -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-4.htm

About six (?) months after it's introduction, the Granada was fitted with the small divided (2 chamber) horn, while the Colony was dropped from the line. In 1927, the Granada was discontinued in favor of the larger 4-40, which used a four-chamber horn, much like the Credenza's, only smaller (about 4.75 feet long).

Even though its horn is relatively small, the later version of the Granada, equipped with the divided horn, pumps out an amazing amount of bass.


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:22 am 
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Victor VI
User avatar
Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
Posts: 3572
Location: Česká Republika
Until lately I've never been much interested in phonographs of the Orthphonic era and beyond. The breadth of my collecting interests has been more focused on machines from "the beginning" up to about 1920 latest. What's a bit odd is that the range of my record interest goes up to ~1930.

Since joining this forum I've met alot of "Orthophonic Fans" and I must say that you guys are bringing me around. I'd like to have one of these, (I know it always starts with one) if the circumstances were right.

Thanks for posting!


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 630
Location: Romney, West Virginia
Hey Ortho-fan, thanks for the info. I had always thought that my little console had a straight horn because Victor was being cheap. Now I know that some early orthophonics just had a straight horn, and that's that!


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:34 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1409
bbphonoguy wrote:
Hey Ortho-fan, thanks for the info. I had always thought that my little console had a straight horn because Victor was being cheap. Now I know that some early orthophonics just had a straight horn, and that's that!

The thing to keep in mind is that all of the folded exponential horns used in the various Orthophonic Victrolas represent a compromise in design. Ideally, all of the Orthophonic Victrolas would have been fitted with a non-folded exponential tone chamber, similar to the one used in the Consolette, etc. Unfortunately, Maxfield and Harrison who designed the electrical recording and playback systems -- http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/recordi ... -labs.html -- could not fit a six foot horn--necessary to reproduce true bass down to about 100 hertz--into a cabinet that would fit comfortably into the average living room, without folding it.

The non-folded Orthophonic horn offers maximum performance and minimum distortion, unlike earlier (pre-1925)cabinet horn designs. The cut-off frequency is in the lower mid-range, so it still offers a nice hint of bass, though not the type of bass response you can feel in the floorboards, as is the case with the much larger Credenza or even larger 10-50.

While it's been argued that folding an exponential horn adds distortion--suppressing some notes, exaggerating others--it's probably a good thing they went this route. Otherwise, the Credenza might have ended up looking something like this: CLICK HERE


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 7:05 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1484
A great looking phonograph. I have not heard this model or really any but the Credenza and Consolette. Its very interesting your discussions around the two types of horn incorporated. I was not aware of that situation or that the design of a straight horn was the best? I wonder if Columbia's sound might be rather solid due to that, I believe the 810 I had was a continuous horn, but not 100%.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm
Posts: 1409
larryh wrote:
A great looking phonograph. I have not heard this model or really any but the Credenza and Consolette. Its very interesting your discussions around the two types of horn incorporated. I was not aware of that situation or that the design of a straight horn was the best? I wonder if Columbia's sound might be rather solid due to that, I believe the 810 I had was a continuous horn, but not 100%.

Larry

Hi Larry:

A few years ago, I stumbled across the patent drawing for the large Columbia Viva Tonal horn -- CLICK HERE -- which credited FRANK C. HINCKLEY as the inventor. I've never been able to find out anything about him, but he must have worked in Columbia's "engineering dept." based on the number of patents credited to him. -- CLICK HERE

From what I can see, the large horn seems to be a double-horn, though perhaps a little more complicated. I know that the smaller cabinet Viva Tonal models (600 series) were fitted with a non-folded horn, similar to that of the Consolette, etc.

Ideally, for maximum efficiency, there should be no bends in the exponential tone chamber, but this is next to impossible from a practicality standpoint. The British gramophone designers & engineers developed the principle to the max, culminating in the EMG/Ginn exponential horn gramophones of the 1930s--long after the technology had been abandoned on this side of the pond.


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 Post subject: Re: Featured Phonograph № 36
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:44 pm
Posts: 1484
Sean,

Well that patent drawing is interesting. Its been some time since I owned the 810 and it seemed to me that the horn opened in one large front opening using the left wall as a portion thereof. I may be forgetting the way it was put together, but I don't recall the dual tone chambers they mention. I wonder if that is the same as the 810? Someone here surely has one though?


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