Homemade Wax Cylinder Project: Request Input

[Victor A]

Hey Everyone, and Happy Easter!


I've been asked to help with a science fair project on sound, and weren't sure how to make a more enduring recording that can last and be audible for long periods of time. So,we put our heads together, and we decided since there is plenty of stearic acid in crayons, we could melt those down and have a base.

However, we need some other kind of wax material that can coat that, making a hopefully less fragile and enduring recording. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd much like to hear them.

Thanks!

[Chuck]

http://www.richardslaboratories.com

[Lucius1958]

Indeed, as Chuck has shown (along with others who would agree), the composition of wax cylinders is more complicated than the casual observer may think.

(Somehow, this reminds me of something..... what could it be?)

Bill

[startgroove]

Would you like a bunch of broken wax cylinders to melt down. There are about 20. They are mostly black wax. They accumulated through the years from our collecting. Seems like there is always a broken one, or two, as we sort through them.

[edisonphonoworks]

You might want to add a little yellow beeswax to the crayons, perhaps 2%. I have made non metallic soap cylinders with 20% ceresin, and 70% stearic acid, 5% beeswax (you can get some stearic acid at Hobby Lobby, only a pound but at least it is a place you can drive to) and 5% carnauba wax, it plays several times (I have played it over 30 times and still quite audiable.) It is not as brittle as metallic soap, and more easy to work with, You could shave it with a power drill in a vice, and a metal ruler, if no shaver is available. Melt these together carefully at 275 degrees, be careful, the temperature goes up fast, keep it at this temp do not go to high it can catch on fire (so can crayons). If no carnauba is available, you can omit it, it wont play as many times but still quite a number, and if no ceresin available you can use candle paraffin,it is not as quite but it can be substituted. If you want to make Metallic soap, remember you can't coat it on anything, as it shrinks 1-2% so will crack (a word of wisdom from my young experimenting days.) Only use graphite as a lubricant, any liquid will spoil the wax.

[Chuck]

Here are a few thoughts:

1) I would not bother with crayons. They are the incorrect material, plus they have extra stuff in them
which adds noise.

2) Although melting down old cylinders *sounds* like
a good idea at first, it is not so great. The black
wax cylinders are made of a much harder wax which was
never intended to be cut with a recording stylus.

I hear over and over again, stories of various
people who shave an old "Gold Moulded" 2 minute
cylinder and then go about making a recording upon it.

This will wear out and dull a recorder cutter in
short order!!!!

Also, the idea of melting and re-casting old cylinders
is a very tricky proposition because each time the
brown wax is heated, melted, and poured again into
a mold, it gets harder. It does this because each time
it's melted it looses a bit of its stearic acid to
vapor. The resulting deficiency of stearic content
makes the wax get harder every time it gets re-melted.

At the very least, some small amount of stearic needs
to be added then thoroughly cooked in when re-using
any old wax. This wax must always be properly re-conditioned to make it ready for proper casting.

The biggest problem with re-using old cylinder wax
is that we do not have access the the exact kind of
stearic they used to make that old wax way back then.

Our modern stearic does not exactly chemically match
what they used. Because of this fact, any time one
goes about trying to use old re-melted scrap cylinders
to make new cylinders, the added new stearic spoils
the whole works and the result is noisy, uneven
totally messed up new cylinders.

It is a waste of time.

If one just simply remelts the old wax and does not
attempt to re-condition it at all by adding any stearic,
the result is an uneven, hard cylinder which would be
lucky to be able to be cut at all by a recorder cutter.

It might record a little bit, but more than likely the
recorder cutter will probably just glide along the top
of the hard surface. If by some sheer luck it does
actually cut and record a little bit, the recorder cutter will very likely skip up at some point during
the recording, and then glide along the top without
cutting. This is called "recorder skip-up" and it
is just about Lesson #1 when starting out casting
blank cylinders.

Best of luck to you in your experiments.

I know from 40+ years of experience with this that by
far the best shot one has of success is to start from
scratch and make their own brown wax from the raw materials. That way at least you know what you have.

Re-melting old cylinders is a random crap-shoot.
You have absolutely no idea what's in there.
Same for crayons, candles, etc.

Best to start from scratch.

My website outlines the entire process from beginning
to end, and it includes every last detail along the way.
I put it all out there for the purpose of making my
entire process available for now, and into the distant
future as a solid and comprehensive guide to anyone
who ever wants to learn how to make brown wax blanks.

I consider this information to be the "lost" information
that has not been available until I documented it.
This website is the one I wished I could find
when I was starting out.

Chuck

[edisonphonoworks]

I have to second what Chuck says. Many times learned people at Universities, and historical preservationists, don't know about the difference between modern stearic and old stearic, and wonder why when they follow a formula to the letter, it comes out too hard, does not mold easily, full of air bubbles, and dendrites. Most modern stearic is from palm trees, and is almost twice as hard as 19th century, double pressed Bovine (cow fat) stearic. They must have started making triple pressed in the 1920-1940 period as the OMS sheet I have from the Ediphone division from 1943 calls for it. Also the aluminum content is a little lower, today, than original OMS information, if a formula calls for .47% aluminum content, .27% will substitute it, if it calls for 13% ceresin, it is more in the area of 17-19% with modern high temperature ceresin. The information on Chuck's page is correct, use it. I won't really believe anyone else, other than Chuck Richards, Paul Morris, or myself.

[Victor A]

Alright then! I think I've gathered a rudimentary recipe, which I will post later. And to answer your question startgroove, I am not currently in need of those cylinders, but thank you for your offer.

[startgroove]

Victor A, Your welcome. Now that I know there is no use for those broken cylinders, I'll be able to throw them out. I'll also throw out several dozen black wax cylinders that are "rusted" or otherwise bad. I've been saving them for years thinking somebody might want them someday for re-recording.

[edisonphonoworks]

Hmm what is it?

Alright then! I think I've gathered a rudimentary recipe, which I will post later. And to answer your question startgroove, I am not currently in need of those cylinders, but thank you for your offer.