Columbia BI Sterling Question

[whitedogfive]

I have the above machine dated 1907. It currently has a Columbia made wood grain painted metal horn, not the original nickel horn. The current horn is screwed into the elbow, on the rear support arm. I would love to get a wood horn (not a repro)to replace the painted one, preferably a spear tip horn. Did Columbia make a wood horn for the BI? If so, do you need to replace the elbow supporting the current metal horn? If so, size or strength differences the reason?
Thanks for your help.

[Kent in KC]

No difference in the elbows. Email sent.

[Jerry B.]

Columbia made three grades of wood horns and any oak one would be correct on your BI. The cheapest wood horn was a paneled horn made with solid pieces of oak joined by ribs. Warping must have been an issue from the start so trim pieces of oak were added to help prevent warping. The next grade of horn has similarities to a Victor spear point horn but it is different. If you look carefully there is a seam that runs the length of the horn. The horn was made from a large piece of oak with oak insets. The easiest way to explain the construction of this horn is to open your hand and spread your fingers. The seam would be where your little finger comes together with your thumb. The spaces between your fingers is filled with other oak pieces giving the appearance of a spear point horn. (If someone has a better way to explain this horn I'd love to hear it!) The most expensive Columbia wood horn is a smooth wood horn similar in appearance to a smooth oak horn used on the Victor School Model.

Jerry Blais

[Django]

This is my original Columbia oak horn on a BI. As far as I know, it was original to this machine. The Columbia is not a spear point. The horn is very different on the outside and has a single piece of veneer going all the way around. They are very uncommon. Eduardo makes a beautiful reproduction of this horn and as far as I know, he is the only person making a copy that is true to the Columbia design.

I bought this machine and horn cheap and very rough. I was surprised how well they both cleaned up. The horn had shrunken and caused the rivets to fail. Someone replaced the rivets with sheet metal screws. I had to remove the screws and make up some rivets. The hard part was making a riveting tool that would reach up inside the horn. It was also speckled with paint spatter and had some veneer missing.

I understand the desire for original if you can find one. Good luck and I hope that it works out. I recently had original Berliner Type A parts turn up after being told that I had little or no chance.

I generally get what I can, when I can and then upgrade later if I find what I really wanted. Sometimes I have found that the need to upgrade wasn't necessary. You can always display with a horn from Eduardo and replace it if you find an original. I don't think that you would have any problem getting most or all of your money back for the reproduction. Just a thought.

[whitedogfive]

Thanks for the info!

[SteveM]

I have two nickel-horned BIs ... does the oak sound any different?

[Django]

The wood tends to absorb certain frequencies. The tone tends to be warmer and have less record noise. I have a nickel horn on my BII and I like them both, but for most music, I prefer the wooden horn. I should put the oak horn on the BII and see how they differ, (I have a broken spring in the BI at the moment). Visually, I still love the nickel.

[Django]

I played my Columbia BII tonight with the oak horn and with the nickel horn. The wooden horn didn't seem to lose anything that you would want to hear. To me, the sound of the wooden horn is cleaner, but it is not a night and day difference, Many internal horn machines have an iron elbow and wooden horn, so I don't feel that the wooden horn has any negatives. Some, like the Edison Diamond Discs have an all steel horn. I think that the best reason for having a wooden horn is looks and value rather than tone. They are fragile, but very pleasing.

You can judge the appearance for yourself. I still like the nickel, but I wouldn't give up the wooden horn. The brass horn is the one that was on it when I bought the machine. It may have been a special order machine with polished brass elbow, monster brass horn and gold plated reproducer and dust ring. The brass horn is too loud for a small room, even with soft tone needles. But it does sound good.

[jboger]

Chanced upon this thread and the oak horn. I have one as well. I thought it was a spear tip. I got it about two years ago at a very local auction. I can't screw it into a columbia because the the threaded metal part has a bad dent in it. don't know if it can be fixed. I know repros are available. Sorry about the photos.

[Django]

If that one is past repair,you may be able to get a new end from Eduardo or Don Gfell.