I just added another DD machine to my collection! an IU-19!

[marcapra]

I just added another Edison Diamond Disc machine to my collection, an Edison Italian Umbrian IU-19. The cabinet is executed in walnut in the style of an "Italian credenza, a side table for the elements of the Eucharist" (Frow). Umbria refers to a region is north central Italy with "historical towns such as Perugia (an important university), Assisi, with works by Giotto and Cimabue), Terni (the hometown of St. Valentine)" etc (Wikipedia). I didn't need another DD machine of course, but I couldn't ignore this one because of the unusual furniture style. I've only seen one other Italian Umbrian IU-19 before at the Stanton auction. I don't know what it sold for or who bought it. These are so rare, the one I saw once might be the one I just bought! I won't have possession of it for another year as I have to wait for "Valecnik" to drive it down to Union from Minnesota next June to give it to Jerry for transport. I know consoles are not generally popular in the collector market, but I like them. I'm also kind of an Italo-phile, and seem to love all things Italian. And it's so unusual for Edison to have something styled after an Italian furniture style, as most of his machines are styled after English and French furniture makers. One reason the IU-19 consoles are rare is that they cost $450 when they came out in 1919! That's $200 more than an upright Official Laboratory Model! The price went up to $500 in 1920, but dropped to $350 in 1922 as it was reported to be a very slow seller. That's the same price as the expensive 18th Century Adam console that came out in 1918. Both of these console model cabinet styles were designed and made by the Aimone Co. of New York. The IU-19 is considered an Official Laboratory Model, but mine does not have the medallion that you see in C-19s and other uprights with the large 250 horn. Frow says that the medallions were placed in these models later, but I have never seen another IU-19 model to confirm this. Maybe one of you own one of these models and can tell me?

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =9&t=16570

video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcV6PySLxPQ

[Valecnik]

I'm happy I could facilitate the deal Marc.

Maybe some others will pipe up and say they own or have seen one as you ask. It's difficult to guess how many might be out there but I've been to almost all the Union shows and watched eBAY for years and vaguely recall maybe one or two in addition to this one. I think there is one at the Edison site if I recall correctly too. I know I've aeen may more of the "18th Century Adam" model.

Anyway congrats!

[gramophone-georg]

Wow, that looks very cool. Have to admit I've never seen one, either.

[marcapra]

By Googling, I found out there was another IU-19 for sale on Ebay last May. It looked good, but was missing a rather important part, the left grille, which is an important part of this phonograph especially. It has an earlier serial number than mine had, 416, so it wasn't surprising that it also lacked the medallion. My serial no. is 889, which tells me that they might have started out with almost 1,000 cabinets when this model came out. I noticed that both of these IU-19 cabinets have the 10/12 keys. Frow doesn't mention 10/12 keys in his Edison book, I guess this proves that they came out as far back as 1919-20 on higher models. Fran may have a better answer to this than I though. I saw a friend's 1918 C-450 Adam console the other day, and it didn't have the 10/12 keys. The C-450 is for sale btw in the L.A. area.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Edison- ... 7675.l2557

[Valecnik]

By Googling, I found out there was another IU-19 for sale on Ebay last May. It looked good, but was missing a rather important part, the left grille, which is an important part of this phonograph especially. It has an earlier serial number than mine had, 416, so it wasn't surprising that it also lacked the medallion. My serial no. is 889, which tells me that they might have started out with almost 1,000 cabinets when this model came out. I noticed that both of these IU-19 cabinets have the 10/12 keys. Frow doesn't mention 10/12 keys in his Edison book, I guess this proves that they came out as far back as 1919-20 on higher models. Fran may have a better answer to this than I though. I saw a friend's 1918 C-450 Adam console the other day, and it didn't have the 10/12 keys. The C-450 is for sale btw in the L.A. area.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Edison- ... 7675.l2557

I'd also be interested on any comments regarding the placement of the 10/12 keys in this model. Seems like it's a bit too early but yet it's clearly correct and came that way from the factory as far as I can tell.

[fran604g]

By Googling, I found out there was another IU-19 for sale on Ebay last May. It looked good, but was missing a rather important part, the left grille, which is an important part of this phonograph especially. It has an earlier serial number than mine had, 416, so it wasn't surprising that it also lacked the medallion. My serial no. is 889, which tells me that they might have started out with almost 1,000 cabinets when this model came out. I noticed that both of these IU-19 cabinets have the 10/12 keys. Frow doesn't mention 10/12 keys in his Edison book, I guess this proves that they came out as far back as 1919-20 on higher models. Fran may have a better answer to this than I though. I saw a friend's 1918 C-450 Adam console the other day, and it didn't have the 10/12 keys. The C-450 is for sale btw in the L.A. area.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Edison- ... 7675.l2557

I'd also be interested on any comments regarding the placement of the 10/12 keys in this model. Seems like it's a bit too early but yet it's clearly correct and came that way from the factory as far as I can tell.

Bruce, I noted that these 2 particular IU-19s (Italian - Umbrian) both have horn throats finished in Antique (aka gun metal). To me, that indicates that this unit was assembled after 1922-23, and that could explain the 10-12 selectors.

Frow states the Umbrian was the "...least successful of the disc phonographs...", and that "A report on all models that was dated August 1922, said the IU-19 was still-born, needed special treatment [emphasis mine], and since being reduced from $500 to $350 for the past six months, 9 models had been sold leaving 821 cabinets still in stock; in early 1926 it was noted as being sold with a varnish finish."

I would bet that the co. was hard pressed to unload this model as best they could (especially in the 1922-23 economic depression era), and the 10-12 record start selector might entice buyers into believing this unit had been "updated" along with the other late competing models (CC-32, CC-33, BC-34) of the period. Pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense the co. might do that -- they apparently did the same thing with the outdated C 19 as well, at some point around 1923-24.

I think the data plate's relatively low-numbered serialization is misleading, and that although the model was introduced in "Spring 1919", the cabinets were in stock for years. It would have been years and years between the assembly of the first few, and subsequent consecutive units. Likely the IU-19 would've been assembled on-demand, I suppose. It should also be noted possibly the serial number range may have been interspersed with other models, making it impossible to determine when the units actually left the factory.

Marc, I would think the same to hold true for yours.

I'd love to see additional examples, especially one with a gold plated horn throat...

Best,
Fran

[Valecnik]

Bruce, I noted that these 2 particular IU-19s (Italian - Umbrian) both have horn throats finished in Antique (aka gun metal). To me, that indicates that this unit was assembled after 1922-23, and that could explain the 10-12 selectors.

Frow states the Umbrian was the "...least successful of the disc phonographs...", and that "A report on all models that was dated August 1922, said the IU-19 was still-born, needed special treatment [emphasis mine], and since being reduced from $500 to $350 for the past six months, 9 models had been sold leaving 821 cabinets still in stock; in early 1926 it was noted as being sold with a varnish finish."

I would bet that the co. was hard pressed to unload this model as best they could (especially in the 1922-23 economic depression era), and the 10-12 record start selector might entice buyers into believing this unit had been "updated" along with the other late competing models (CC-32, CC-33, BC-34) of the period. Pure speculation on my part, but it makes sense the co. might do that -- they apparently did the same thing with the outdated C 19 as well, at some point around 1923-24.

I think the data plate's relatively low-numbered serialization is misleading, and that although the model was introduced in "Spring 1919", the cabinets were in stock for years. It would have been years and years between the assembly of the first few, and subsequent consecutive units. Likely the IU-19 would've been assembled on-demand, I suppose. It should also be noted possibly the serial number range may have been interspersed with other models, making it impossible to determine when the units actually left the factory.

Marc, I would think the same to hold true for yours.

I'd love to see additional examples, especially one with a gold plated horn throat...

Best,
Fran

Fran those numbers from Frow indicate there might have been an initial cabinet order of 1000 and only 180 sold into 1922. It's hard to imagine very many at all sold after that. Possibly they were kept in the catalogue and if anyone ordered one it was easy enough to drop in a mechanism and ship it. You can see why they are rarely seen today.

[fran604g]

Marc,

Another question: is there a "Cabinet Factory No." tag anywhere?

Best,
Fran

[marcapra]

I'd love to see additional examples, especially one with a gold plated horn throat...

Fran, I don't think you will ever see an example of an IU-19 with gold plated hardware as Frow states that this model came from the start with "dull plated hardware". That's an interesting theory you have there, and I can easily see that since it was such a slow seller, that the Edison Co. could have put the 10/12 keys on it after 1922 to fulfill a current order. When Edison ordered a thousand or so cabinets of this model in 1919, would they leave them empty until ordered, or would they drop in the mechanism to all of them? Also as Valecnik says, they could have installed the 10/12 keys when a unit was ordered after 1922. I think that's when the 10/12 keys were invented, right? As far as the cabinet sticker, I don't yet have possession of it yet, but my W&M-19 console says cabinet factory No. 18.

[fran604g]

I'd love to see additional examples, especially one with a gold plated horn throat...

Fran, I don't think you will ever see an example of an IU-19 with gold plated hardware as Frow states that this model came from the start with "dull plated hardware". That's an interesting theory you have there, and I can easily see that since it was such a slow seller, that the Edison Co. could have put the 10/12 keys on it after 1922 to fulfill a current order. When Edison ordered a thousand or so cabinets of this model in 1919, would the leave them empty until ordered, or would they drop it the mechanism to all of them? Also as Valecnik says, they could have installed the 10/12 keys when a unit was ordered after 1922. I think that's when the 10/12 keys were invented, right? As far as the cabinet sticker, I don't yet have possession of it yet, but my W&M-19 console says cabinet factory No. 18.

It's interesting that Frow was so vague as to the metal finish being "dull finished hardware". The images of yours (I assume the video is of the same one), and the eBay listing are certainly sporting horn throats finished in Antique (gun metal). Given that Frow also stated the "Official Laboratory Model" status was eventually applied to this model, I assumed the earliest units would've been gold plated, as was the standard originally set forth for such distinction.

Maybe that's why the IU-19 wasn't initially badged as an "OLM"; though it had the "250" horn, and a 2-spring motor, it didn't have gold plated hardware. It's possible that later on it could've been given the "OLM" designation because eventually even the C 19 was no longer gold plated, but Antique finish. It had always retained the "OLM" status, nevertheless.

Congratulations, Marc, on an interesting acquisition!

Best,
Fran