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 Post subject: Victor/HMV double spring/single barrel motors.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:09 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 12
Good Day Folks.

I have a Victor/HMV motor with the double spring/single barrel design (mine's the HMV 32 European version but the problem would relate to all versions and, the larger 34 double barrel 4 spring).

Excessive slithering and even the odd thump - on wind up.
The motor board has the effect of amplifying this movement to a disturbing level.

Now guys, please don't talk about cleaning and relubing springs as I've been there and done that (which has successfully alleviated the thump on wind down).
The springs have now been in and out half a dozen times using various greases ranging from NLGI thickness 0 to 3 with and without graphite, all to no avail. And yes guys, generous amounts have been used (to the point of excess oozing from the spindle and face plate).
They are now out and cleaned again but I have got to thinking about spring coils.

My springs when laid out are 12 - 13 inches in diameter and when installed, I have noticed the best part of ¾ of an inch of "lost " space between the first few inner coils. Thinking thus about curvature, would new springs be more tightly (and equally)compressed throughout their length? I've only ever seen new springs when supplied fully compressed in a wire ring, when released are 13 footers (or even the longer ones) significantly less than a foot in diameter?
If so, this would obviously reduce the tension on the outer coils when installed in the barrel. In other words, are my springs a bit too "straight". The slithering originates from the outer coils dragging against each other, when the barrel carries out its requisite "swinging" to and fro motion. Obviously in conventional designs (1 spring per barrel) this does not happen as the coil movement is in one direction only thus peeling apart without any drag. With the moving barrel arrangement, the situation is more crucial, the springs need to be as loose as possible in the barrel when discharged. The perfect arrangement would be a drop in fit but, with 13 feet (or even 15/17 feet on US versions) into a 3 ¾ inch barrel this probably couldn't be. When installing however, for the required freedom on the outer coils, logically only modest effort should be needed, rather than what usually seems to be a bit of a battle to initially force the outer coils in. Obviously the greater resistance encountered here is a pointer to the pressure exerted and, with this sort of resistance I can't imagine any lubricant even in copious amounts, being sufficient to create the freedom required. This would be even more important with the longer US springs so, does anyone out there have any observations or comments? I don't want to spend mega bucks on new springs if the above is not the case as mine still have plenty of power and run for the average of 5 minutes for this motor. Also buying new springs is a bit of a minefield, if they are closely coiled, are they of sufficient quality to retain their shape (in fairness mine are almost certainly originals, with the HMV logo on the ends).

Thanks.

Dave R.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor/HMV double spring/single barrel motors.
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:32 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:11 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Spain
I installed 2 new springs in a 32 - and yes they thump and grind when rewinding, but are quiet when playing! Which I find is the important part... plenty of grease oozing out too... maybe it´s just the way they´re constructed?

Snall


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 Post subject: Re: Victor/HMV double spring/single barrel motors.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:47 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 12
Thank you,

That at least stops me wasting dosh on new springs in an effort to cure it.

Thus, before reassembling it yet again - turning to lubrication, can anyone comment (from their own experience) on WHICH grease is at best, most effective ?
Also, some swear by graphite but when I used it, the slithering was actually worse than without it. Does it have slight abrasive properties which would aggravate such a problem ?

The guy on U-TUBE mentions adding Slick 50, others say DON'T add any anything at all to the grease.

Thanks folks.

Dave.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor/HMV double spring/single barrel motors.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:07 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:41 am
Posts: 305
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
The grease discussion has been brought up many times, such as in this thread where Castrol lithium wheel bearing grease was recommended for mainsprings over molybdenum-based greases.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor/HMV double spring/single barrel motors.
PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:27 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:12 am
Posts: 12
Coyote - Thank you for the reading material...

Have now reassembled (yet again) this time with Castrol LM. So far it's a deal better than it was but, can still hear slither so hopefully this is the best it gets with this design.

Dave.


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