HOLY! ........Where did these pop out of?!?!?

[Aaron]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... _975wt_939

Ok, Where the !@#@ did these pop out of? I haven't heard of anyone finding one of these in a long....time ...let alone 12 at once. Whoever won these got an AWESOME deal. These records in this condition have to be worth $2000 a piece!!!!! I'm still in shock as I just saw them on the other board!

Aaron

[phonophan79]

What is it?

[Aaron]

What is it?

Dean, there extremely early Columbia cylinders used on early treadle powered machines and earlier machines of the such before Columbia decided to make the switch to the standard sized cylinders. The records are just as rare if not rarer than the early machines that played them. And I only know of a few that look as good as the the one pictured. They were actually made by Bell-Taint to be specific and were ozocerite-coated over a paper core. I don't know what that material is but the paper core made them fragile as well.... I'm still in shock..

Aaron

[Brad]

Aaron,

That is an interesting lot. I am surprise it wasn't noticed by this motley crew.

It almost appears that they are NOS. Do you think they are?

Brad

[Aaron]

Hey Brad,

They very well could be NOS, but the only reason the like of us didn't see this was because the seller had them mislabeled as the title. And i believe the box there in is actually for a book and the original owner just thought they fit well in it. The wrapping could very well be original, but like i said I'm very doubtful about the box. The cylinder pictured looks like its in amazing condition. But the industry didn't last long for these cylinders before Bell-Tainter/Columbia switched over. They made it possible for the machine to be easily be switched to play standard cylinders. The original owner could have bought these and then a month later converted his machine. It could have been a matter of days even, who knows. But this is still a VERY remarkable fine...

Aaron

[phonogfp]

A remarkable find indeed! I'll bet that pawnbroker in Florida was surprised at how high they went, and no doubt the buyer is dancing for joy over his bargain...

Ozocerite is an early form of "wax" (pronounced "o-zok'-er-ite"), and as Aaron noted, the cardboard tube was covered with a thin layer of it. These cylinders were not shaveable. One recording and you were done. Interestingly, the one cylinder shown appears to have been recorded (so it's not NOS). I wonder if they all were - and I surely wonder what's on it (them). These records were commercially produced from 1888-1893, and were recorded at 160 tpi (except for a very few recorded at 125 tpi).

In 42 years of collecting, I've managed to obtain only one of these (it too is recorded, but I don't know what's on it). Great stuff continues to surface, doesn't it? Amazing...

George P.

[Shane]

I've never even heard of these. Is the printing on the box supposed to indicate the recorded content of these cylinders, or are they just stashed in that random box?

[SonnyPhono]

Wow!! I have only seen one of these for sale since I have collected and it was in poor condition. These are very rare indeed and to find 12 of them at once...unbelievable! I wonder what these would have gone for if sold under the proper catagories and the title listed with better identification. Thanks for showing these Aaron!

[Aaron]

A remarkable find indeed! I'll bet that pawnbroker in Florida was surprised at how high they went, and no doubt the buyer is dancing for joy over his bargain...

Ozocerite is an early form of "wax" (pronounced "o-zok'-er-ite"), and as Aaron noted, the cardboard tube was covered with a thin layer of it. These cylinders were not shaveable. One recording and you were done. Interestingly, the one cylinder shown appears to have been recorded (so it's not NOS). I wonder if they all were - and I surely wonder what's on it (them). These records were commercially produced from 1888-1893, and were recorded at 160 tpi (except for a very few recorded at 125 tpi).

In 42 years of collecting, I've managed to obtain only one of these (it too is recorded, but I don't know what's on it). Great stuff continues to surface, doesn't it? Amazing...

George P.

George,

Did they always come blank and then the owner would record on them? Was it too early on in the industry before music was commercially sold?

Have you ever tried to play your cylinder? I assume damage would be a large concern...

I've never even heard of these. Is the printing on the box supposed to indicate the recorded content of these cylinders, or are they just stashed in that random box?

Shane,

Like I said above, I believe the box they are in is a box for a book of some sort with the stated title. So basically it is a random box. I doubt if the records had anything to do with it, but who knows, with all the stuff appearing on Ebay lately, I think anything's possible.

Aaron

[phonogfp]

George,

Did they always come blank and then the owner would record on them? Was it too early on in the industry before music was commercially sold?

Have you ever tried to play your cylinder? I assume damage would be a large concern...

I've never even heard of these. Is the printing on the box supposed to indicate the recorded content of these cylinders, or are they just stashed in that random box?

Shane,

Like I said above, I believe the box they are in is a box for a book of some sort with the stated title. So basically it is a random box. I doubt if the records had anything to do with it, but who knows, with all the stuff appearing on Ebay lately, I think anything's possible.

Aaron

Aaron,

You're right - the box is purely random. It originally housed a 2-volume set of The American Commonwealth, published by Macmillan & Co., which originally cost $4.00. These Graphophone ozocerite cylinders were originally shipped in wooden boxes, as shown in Discovering Antique Phonographs(see below).

Ozocerite cylinders were meant solely for dictation use - - at least there is no known list of prerecorded music available on them. Only a very few ozocerite cylinders are known with music recorded on them, and these may have been recorded/dubbed by the original owners. Charles Sumner Tainter, the inventor of this cylinder record type, reportedly recorded music on these cylinders for use at the Chicago World's Fair in 1893, but there's some question of whether they were ever put in service, or if the music was actually recorded on Edison-type cylinders. Edison cylinders were available with musical recorded content from 1888 onward, so it wasn't a matter of the ozocerite cylinders being too early, but one of playing fidelity. The treadle Graphophone's beak-type reproducer with its small diaphragm was designed to play back a voice rather than music.

As for my example, although my machine retains its 160 tpi feedscrew, the gutta percha reproducer is the type meant to play Edison-style cylinders, so its stylus is too wide for the ozocerite cylinder's grooves. At some point I'm expecting a visitor who will be bringing an Archeophone to play and record the content of this and some other records I have here. I'm looking forward to that!

Best to all,
George P.