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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 pm 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:09 pm
Posts: 1640
I can tell you from personal experience that theft of phono-related items has been going on for years. You have heard the ancient saying, "There is no honor among thieves". Well, there is no honor among *some* collectors either. That may offend some, but it is the ugly truth. Some collectors are TOO acquisitive and covet what can't be acquired by honest means.

I used to help a friend manage an antique phonograph booth at a large antique mall on the weekends. He brought in a copy of "Christmas Greetings From The Bunch At Orange". Within an hour, someone had lifted it from under our noses! None of our regular customers had been there, but some sharp-eyed thief knew what it was. I had other records stolen right off machines when my head was turned.

When I was a member of MAPS back in the 1980s, I and friend Al Parrish set up a demonstration of recording wax cylinders at our annual convention. He had a recorder that made particularly good recordings; someone else thought so too, and it disappeared off the machine within minutes of leaving the room. We never got over that.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:16 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 470
Location: Davie, FL
What knowledgable collector or dealer would bother stealing a large item that is close to worthless? If a larcenous mind is at work, he/she is going to go for the easy take. Filching something from the entranceway, when the rightful owner may appear at any moment, seems far-fetched. Everbody knows about the videocams, being omnipresent, too.

My bet goes on the theory that another person was loading up, and one of his helpers mistakenly threw it on the truck. OR, a person with no knowledge of phonos (there are sometimes other simultaneous events at the PAL Center) filched it, thinking it was a good score.

I’ve never had anything go missing at a show or auction. Let’s hope it stays that way.

Raphael


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:19 pm 
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Auxetophone
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Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:01 am
Posts: 1927
Location: Ferndale, MI
VintageTechnologies wrote:
Some collectors are TOO acquisitive and covet what can't be acquired by honest means.


And this is why we can't have nice things...
Brandon


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 1813
Location: just outside Philadelphia, PA
HisMastersVoice wrote:
VintageTechnologies wrote:
Some collectors are TOO acquisitive and covet what can't be acquired by honest means.


And this is why we can't have nice things...




Amen


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:49 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 996
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Raphael wrote:
What knowledgable collector or dealer would bother stealing a large item that is close to worthless? If a larcenous mind is at work, he/she is going to go for the easy take. Filching something from the entranceway, when the rightful owner may appear at any moment, seems far-fetched. Everbody knows about the videocams, being omnipresent, too.

My bet goes on the theory that another person was loading up, and one of his helpers mistakenly threw it on the truck. OR, a person with no knowledge of phonos (there are sometimes other simultaneous events at the PAL Center) filched it, thinking it was a good score.

I’ve never had anything go missing at a show or auction. Let’s hope it stays that way.

Raphael


You'd be surprised what people will steal. Sometimes I think it's just for the thrill of getting away with it.

I went through the antique mall bologna too. Every time I got zipped it was due to the owner's or another dealer's negligence.

First was when I kept all reproducers and cranks in a locked cabinet. The desk had a key in case someone wanted a demo. On this occasion, the owner "forgot" to take the stuff off the machine and lock it back in the case. Lost a pristine winged Model C that time.

Another time they left a case open and unlocked and someone made off with 20 brown wax cylinders.

The final time I had a DD machine for sale with a bunch of nice dance records. Big sign on the machine that the records were for sale with the machine only. Each sleeve had a post- it note stating same. There was also a store policy that items brought to the counter with no price tags were NOT to be sold unless cleared by the owner in person or by phone.

One day, all the DDs were gone, but there was a notation on my sales sheet that one of the clerks sold 25 records out of my booth at $3 each. Gee, I was missing exactly 25 DDs out of the machine. :roll: I asked the clerk who signed the notation how she got $3 each as a price since I didn't have any $3 records. She said that since they weren't marked, she just assumed, since she had some $3 LPs in her booth.

This took place right in front of one of the owners. The owner's reaction was so sad too bad, they should have been marked. I took her back and showed her the sign on the machine and the nice stack of post its that the "buyer" left behind in the cabinet. The owner just shrugged. So much for store policy, eh?

Needless to say, I moved my stuff out that day. I had the biggest booth in the place and turned the steadiest revenue. Never again.

I think to this day that the "buyer" of my DDs was a friend of the gal who sold them. They were all Golden Gate/ Oreste/ B.A. Rolfe/ Duke Yellman 51000 series stuff, too.

This was almost 20 years ago.

Never again on antique malls. The theft and damage is just amazing and nobody gives a damn. I can imagine shows are the same. It's sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Victor III
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I'm Getting Ready for my Mother In Law
Joined: Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:52 pm
Posts: 665
Location: the Adirondacks
Here’s one for the books. I consigned a disc machine to be sold at Stanton’s. I watched it go up to the sale block., and it sold. Within minutes, one of the workers there said that the buyer claimed the reproducer was missing!! So he sent it back and it got sold again without the reproducer. At a much lower price. THAT was despicable. And just plain wrong. I was so angered that I didn’t do the right thing that very moment and ask WHO the first winning bidder was. The offender probably assumed the consignor wasn’t in the room. Oh, how I still fantasize about bellowing, “GONIF!!!! (pointing) GONIFFFFFF!!!!!” in a crowded auction hall.
-Antique Phonograph Reproducer Restorer-
http://www.EdisonDiamondDisc.com
Taming Orthophonics Daily!


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:32 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 996
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
MicaMonster wrote:
Here’s one for the books. I consigned a disc machine to be sold at Stanton’s. I watched it go up to the sale block., and it sold. Within minutes, one of the workers there said that the buyer claimed the reproducer was missing!! So he sent it back and it got sold again without the reproducer. At a much lower price. THAT was despicable. And just plain wrong. I was so angered that I didn’t do the right thing that very moment and ask WHO the first winning bidder was. The offender probably assumed the consignor wasn’t in the room. Oh, how I still fantasize about bellowing, “GONIF!!!! (pointing) GONIFFFFFF!!!!!” in a crowded auction hall.


Damn, I haven't heard that one since my NYC days! :lol: That and 'galoot'.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:28 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:57 am
Posts: 480
Location: Hampshire, England.
I am afraid the human condition of some people means that we, on the other side of the pond, are not immune from such happenings too.

A few years ago a record dealer died and his widow made his collection available to interested parties--by appointment. I took along a friend newly interested in gramophones to help him start his own collection. We were in the building all day and during the morning I came across ten mint Velvet Tone Annette Hanshaw shellac records which had been used for transfers. I passed them to my friend asking him to put them in one of the boxes we were gradually filling. At the end of the day, and having paid for everything on the list, we returned to his home but were unable to find the ten records. During the day there had been only one other person present in the room---a well-known dealer---thus we instantly knew what had happened.

On another occasion, I had just arrived at a mechanical music auction run by one of the big names and looked at two EMG gramophones awaiting sale. I happened to glance away for only a few seconds and upon looking back immediately noticed that both soundboxes had been removed and were nowhere to be seen. I made quite a commotion and started to close doors and talk of phoning the police. There was much confusion but ten minutes later both soundboxes were found on the other side of the room tucked away behind some packing cases.

In each case we know exactly who the culprits were but it is so difficult to prove isn’t it ? Eternal vigilance is sadly the only answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:48 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:18 am
Posts: 626
emgcr wrote:
In each case we know exactly who the culprits were but it is so difficult to prove isn’t it ? Eternal vigilance is sadly the only answer.


You are correct, unfortunately the pieces we collect are industrial products and in cases as the ones you mention there is nothing to distinguish one from another, so the thief can feel safe to advertise the stolen records / soundboxes for sale on the next day. For this reason I met a number of collectors that are very reticent about showing their collections to people they don't know well.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:54 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1421
Location: Grosse Pointe, MI
A very good collector friend of mine had someone, whom he has known for years, load up some of his stuff to sell for him. First round went o.k., the guy sold his stuff and took the agreed upon percentage for his trouble. With great confidence, another load of items, (bigger this time), was hauled off. That's where it ended... No news, no money sent, no communication, nothing. All of it stolen. Since he had known him, and had good dealings with the first round, there was no list of items or inventory made. Now, just one guy's word against the other.


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