The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:35 am 
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Victor Monarch
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 4748
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
I once borrowed a chainsaw from a friend. (Yes, this really does relate to this thread!) While I was using it to cut down a small tree (for another friend), the chainsaw stopped dead. I certainly wasn't going to return it not working, so I took the chainsaw to the dealer and told him to fix whatever was wrong with it.

The dealer called me the next day to tell me that the chainsaw had been badly neglected for a long time. The bar was broken and rusted - - meaning the damage had happened long ago. The carburetor had also been broken for some time. The dealer was surprised the saw had worked at all - - especially with a chain so dull. Fixing everything would cost $155. (This was in the mid-1980s.) I told the dealer to fix everything, and I paid him.

My feeling was that my friend would be pleased with the improvement of his saw's performance, and I was willing to pay half the cost. After all, I'd been using it when it stopped working. I'm a responsible guy. Funny thing, though. My "friend" didn't see it that way. He told me that by borrowing it, I had assumed all responsibility, whether he had kept it maintained or not. My brilliantly-delivered analyis and analogies, couched in the warmth of our friendship, and the fact that I had willingly underwritten the entire cost of his neglected maintenance didn't faze him. I regretfully wished him a nice life...

Now, if a guy whom I had known for 5 years or so on a very friendly basis; a guy I had helped to roof his barn, and with whom and his girlfriend my wife and I had broken bread many times, would sell me for a lousy $155, what would a phonograph collector (so NOW we finally get to the point!) do to me in the heat of avaricious pursuit? Unfortunately, I've had a taste of that too, but I'm not about to put that on the Internet.

The point is that money (and collector's items) will do funny things to some people. They'll sell their souls - or you, if you're in their way. Thankfully, these poor people are relatively few in number, but it's difficult to tell who they are until the fever is upon them.

Again, thankfully most collectors I know don't suffer from such affliction. I think... :)

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:39 am 
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Victor II
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:44 am
Posts: 470
Location: Davie, FL
CarlosV wrote:
For this reason I met a number of collectors that are very reticent about showing their collections to people they don't know well.


Indeed, my policy is not to allow anybody into my house unless I know them well or they have purchased from me in the past.

Especially being in a tourist area, I get too many calls from lookie-lookies on vacation and who have never contacted me prior. I just say, sorry, I have other plans, maybe next time. The few times I have violated my own policy have been a complete waste of time for me, but fortunately no evildoers were among them.

Raphael


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:09 pm 
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Victor V
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Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 2149
Location: Delaware
phonogfp wrote:
....

The point is that money (and collector's items) will do funny things to some people. They'll sell their souls - or you, if you're in their way. Thankfully, these poor people are relatively few in number, but it's difficult to tell who they are until the fever is upon them.

Again, thankfully most collectors I know don't suffer from such affliction. I think... :)

George P.


I agree and I really do not want to belittle any of the bad experiences many or all of us have had in the past. But things really get depressing and life starts to "suck" when we focus on these bad experiences and let ourselves being put down by them.

I don't suggest to forget the bad, but rather to focus on all the positive awesome experiences we have every day on this forum and within our collectors community. How often do we send money via check or Paypal "friends and family" to people on this forum that we have never met and who are really only a screen name and some posts for us? Or we send parts or machine across the country or abroad essentially to strangers, trusting that they are all honest and decent people. And 99% of the time it all works out and we make friends along the way. This is truly awesome and makes a big part of the enjoyment of this hobby for me.

Yes, there are some bad apples, and Brian, I really feel sorry that you had to have this bad experience, but in general our community is made up from good and honest people. Let's focus on that and don't let the few bad apples ruin that for us.

Andreas


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:19 pm 
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Victor III
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Richards Laboratories http://www.richardslaboratories.com producing high quality cylinder blanks
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:28 pm
Posts: 638
Unfortunately, there are a few percent of people
who view life as a struggle between predator and prey.
Often, these types of people will decide for themselves
somewhere along the line that it is better for them
to assume the role of the predator, and therefore
leave everyone else to be their prey.

All that any of us can do is to just simply keep
that in mind and try to watch out so that we do not
become the next victim.

Sure, it's a hassle that regular normal people must
burden themselves with this extra (and very annoying)
thought process every time we do anything which involves
other people. However, a little diligence about that
stuff can help a regular person to stand guard better
against thieves.

Too bad they have to be out there for us all to have
to watch out for. But, occasionally one gets caught
in the act, and then we can all enjoy watching the results of that.
"Sustained success depends on searching
for, and gaining, fundamental understanding"

-Bell System Credo


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 7:00 pm
Posts: 190
Location: Hollywood, U.S.A.
If I was presented a bill for $75 for the repair of something I had just lent out to someone, I probably wouldn't pay it either. You should have asked him if he wanted it repaired before you had it repaired. Maybe he really didn't need the chainsaw and would have just chucked it in the trash and written it off. That was his choice to make, not yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 4748
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
alang wrote:
phonogfp wrote:
....

The point is that money (and collector's items) will do funny things to some people. They'll sell their souls - or you, if you're in their way. Thankfully, these poor people are relatively few in number, but it's difficult to tell who they are until the fever is upon them.

Again, thankfully most collectors I know don't suffer from such affliction. I think... :)

George P.


I agree and I really do not want to belittle any of the bad experiences many or all of us have had in the past. But things really get depressing and life starts to "suck" when we focus on these bad experiences and let ourselves being put down by them.

I don't suggest to forget the bad, but rather to focus on all the positive awesome experiences we have every day on this forum and within our collectors community. How often do we send money via check or Paypal "friends and family" to people on this forum that we have never met and who are really only a screen name and some posts for us? Or we send parts or machine across the country or abroad essentially to strangers, trusting that they are all honest and decent people. And 99% of the time it all works out and we make friends along the way. This is truly awesome and makes a big part of the enjoyment of this hobby for me.

Yes, there are some bad apples, and Brian, I really feel sorry that you had to have this bad experience, but in general our community is made up from good and honest people. Let's focus on that and don't let the few bad apples ruin that for us.

Andreas


Amen! :) I'm with you 100% Andreas.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:06 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 4748
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
bigshot wrote:
If I was presented a bill for $75 for the repair of something I had just lent out to someone, I probably wouldn't pay it either. You should have asked him if he wanted it repaired before you had it repaired. Maybe he really didn't need the chainsaw and would have just chucked it in the trash and written it off. That was his choice to make, not yours.


Well, he and his girlfriend lived on a farm, and he used that chainsaw quite a bit. That's how I knew he had it - I saw him using it on a number of occasions. According to his girlfriend (with whom I worked), he continued to use that chainsaw for many more years. No doubt. It was like new again.

But you're correct in one respect. I never again have done anything with a friend's property without checking first. The guy who loaned me the chainsaw was in Europe for 2 or 3 weeks while I borrowed it, so my thinking was that he would have it available to him when he returned. I didn't want him to be inconvenienced. But no good deed goes unpunished... :)

As Andreas said, let's focus on the positive. I can count far more good people in this hobby than the others.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:10 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:00 pm
Posts: 2847
Location: Western, WA State
I'm a little late chiming in, but here is my take. Fortunately, I never had anything stolen at a show as both a buyer and seller. When ever I had to leave my area for food, bathroom break, or just walking around, I would ask my neighbor to watch my stuff until I got back. I would do the same for them. Years ago, I had a very late Columbia AH stolen right off of my front porch. It was a total basket case with non working motor, peeling veneer, etc. I was cleaning the dirt and gunk off of it. I left it outside, so it wouldn't stink up the house. Next day it was gone. I did have pictures and had a police report done with a case number. God help the person if I ever see it at an antique mall, ebay, yard sale, etc. I do know one thing. I really believe in Karma, what goes around, comes around. These individuals who do with will get their turn. There are times that I see what happens to them, and other times, not. But they do get their just rewards. This is a little off topic, but fitting to this conversation. It really burns my toast when you bend over and help someone, and they pee and crap over you. I'm very selective of who I will help or not. A couple of years ago, I was helping a new collector who is a member of the Forum and a member of out OTAPS group. I would bend over backwards to help this guy with my knowledge and experience. I would help him do repairs, what to look for, trading, etc. He was a hoarder with stuff all over his place. He would lose items all the time, and blame others when he can't find the item. He accuses me of taking one of his small machines and wanted to end the friendship. Needless to say, I was very angry and upset, so I gave him a farewell email with a harsh dressing down. One in a while, I'll see him at a local flea marker and he avoids me like the plague. Anyway, just because there are bad apples(they are everywhere) should not ruin or hobby and fun. Eventually, they will be exposed for what they are. Brian, Don't worry. This thief will get their just reward if your phonograph was taken with malice.
Harvey Kravitz


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:18 am 
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Victor V
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Needle Tins are Addictive
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:32 pm
Posts: 2752
Location: Belmont, North Carolina
I have just one question... what does GONIF mean?

As far as Brian's machine is concerned, he actually had a fairly rare portable... a Modernolette made by the Modernola phono lamp company. I have only seen one other in the past 40 years... I'll bet that there are not many out there and while rarity alone does not always equate to desirability, there are many collectors looking for those oddities...

As far as honesty among collectors, I have only been burned once on eBay and PayPal made it right. Otherwise, I have mailed cash - Euros, British Pounds, US Dollars to other collectors in Germany, Great Britain, Spain, Australia, South America and Scandinavia to pay for records that I wanted. So far, I have had 100% success, as most real collectors are honest, but to be truthful I haven't been tempted to send more than $100 or so in cash.

Typically, I have found that "real collectors" (people who appreciate certain items and collect them) as opposed to "money collectors", are reliable since they care more about the items than the money and usually bend over backward to make sure their item gets to you in one piece and are happy that you appreciate the item as much as they do... I figure that someone who would scam you for $100 or so, doesn't have any real feeling of self worth since they have a low threshold for personal integrity.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife


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 Post subject: Re: Machine stolen at Wayne NJ show 10/8/17
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:59 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
Posts: 1938
Curt A wrote:
I have just one question... what does GONIF mean?



Yiddish for "thief".

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/goniff


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