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 Post subject: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:02 am 
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Victor III
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For those of you that know me, and I mean....REALLY KNOW ME......I find subtle weird noises annoying. Very annoying. Like an 11yr old child weeping at the dinner table because they are too tired to eat the dinner you spent 2 hours preparing. To the extent that I lose sleep over the process of problem solving. In my own personal Edison cylinder reproducers I have been using silicone gaskets, as it is really the closest thing to the original gum rubber that allows the diaphragm to vibrate sufficiently, without clamping the life out of it between two pieces of hard rubber.

With the Edison Standard Speaker, Automatic, and Model C / H you will encounter what I call reflexive-blasting. This is what happens when sound energy travels off the cylinder, through the stylus bar and linkage and meets the diaphragm. If the diaphragm isn't able to match the low/mid band frequencies.....by vibrating and converting the signature to compressions and rarefactions of air (sound).....it has to go SOMEWHERE. And what we encounter is the mechanical energy finding other paths to travel......usually sounding out of the wire linkage and sapphire bar itself (sapphire bounce). If the diaphragm isn't allowed to reproduce the frequencies, the sound energy itself must dissipate elsewhere, usually with uncomfortable results. This is stuff that Lieutenant Bettini not only knew about and understood, but was second nature to his inventive thinking. Much like asking Nicola Tesla or Charles Steinmetz why AC travels further down a copper wire than DC. To them, a Ritz cracker. To some of us, a whack in the head with a frozen pot roast.

SO! back to my rant. Stay with me here, because what I have devised as a solution is actually very simple, and my early holiday gift of phono-tinkerage to you.

The biggest offender for blasting is the Edison Automatic. It's glass diaphragm is about as intolerant as your Swedish grandmother of Paul Whiteman 78s and your autographed photo of Tom Stacks smoking. What I have devised is the use of capillary surgical tubing in a SINGLE PIECE configuration. Look at the first picture.....the gasket surrounds the glass diaphragm like the letter "C.". Not only does this method keep the diaphragm centered in the reproducer body, but the material itself is thin, so it fits in the reproducer body nicely, and isn't thicker than the original gaskets. On brown waxes, it plays back better than anything I have ever used. AND, it works miracles on the copper alloy diaphragms of later model Edison reproducers.

THE ISSUE is installing it. The tubing is 1mm wide, and I have engineered a way to cut a slot in it uniformly, along the natural inside curvature of it. Handling a glass diaphragm, while seating this stuff around the edge is a struggle, even for me (now that I might need bifocals...........BOLLOCKS). And could result in cutting yourself or cracking the diaphragm.

This isn't an upgrade for those with low tolerance levels for fine motor skills. The material is 1mm OD .5mm ID silicone tubing. I have a jig to cut the slot in it. I will post further photos of a simplified method for doing this next week. Aside from replacing the old rubber with this stuff on your diaphragm, it is also a good time to rotate your sapphire to a new facet (Model C / H), or replace your sapphire with a new one if your original one has a flat on the tip of it (Standard Speaker / Automatic).

IMPORTANT: when installing the reproducer top (Automatic) or lock ring (Model C), only install to feather tightness. DO NOT CLAMP IT DOWN HARD. You just want to seal the edges, not clamp down on it, otherwise the diaphragm won't be able to "breathe."


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 8:55 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:41 pm
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Location: Linden, NJ 07036
Very interesting Wyatt, look forward to more on this.

Rich Gordon


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:53 am 
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Victor IV
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Looks like a very good idea, and acts like the surround on a woofer, and also suspends and isolates the diaphragm!


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:58 am 
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Victor II
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I have an automatic that needs this! I look forward to your progress. And, as always, I love you attention to detail and the quality of the work you do. Keep it up guy!
-- Dan

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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:50 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1040
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
I just got my Automatic back from Wyatt with this treatment that he seemed to invent on the fly just to solve my issue.

The Automatic was in top condition with fresh gaskets and a perfect original stylus, and a perfect glass diaphragm. You couldn't ask for a more perfect Automatic- as long as you didn't play it. :lol: It sounded like a disc player with a really worn needle and a rattle inside, but nothing looked amiss.

So, out of desperation I consulted with the Monster and sent it off. Wyatt had me call him scratching his head. We left off the conversation with Wyatt willing to try this experiment but not holding much hope for improving things. We were actually seriously discussing finding me a "C" to actually play cylinders with due to the natural limitations of the Automatic on anything but the earliest brown wax records which, it seems, may have a wider groove to better accommodate this stylus. We talked about replacing the stylus with a later C one (keeping the original with the reproducer) and I almost went for it, but decided to just opt for a real C instead.

Well, I got the repro back yesterday and finally got to try it last night on a black wax very loud band cylinder... and let's just say I no longer need no stinkin' C! :D

WHAT a difference! If you have an Automatic with issues, you need this.

My thought on this initially was that the edge of the glass was scraping the inside of the bore it fits in... that's how bad it was. Maybe I was right, maybe not, but Wyatt's solution eliminates the possibility.

"Nearly" eliminating blast is probably being modest, LOL. Wyatt, I think you should design this as a fix for allreproducers, quite frankly.


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:22 pm 
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Victor IV
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A new blank with authentic formula and spiral core!
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Gramophone George. I bet that with these gaskets and the glass diaphragm that Wyatt did this treatment to, that it sounds brighter, and clearer (and more bass presence)that the C and you hear things you never heard before!


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 6:17 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
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Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
edisonphonoworks wrote:
Gramophone George. I bet that with these gaskets and the glass diaphragm that Wyatt did this treatment to, that it sounds brighter, and clearer (and more bass presence)that the C and you hear things you never heard before!


Well... as I've said before, I've gone on a few "crusades" to try to like cylinders but I just can't get there. :lol: Therefore, I really haven't listened all that much to notice a difference in hearing things I haven't heard before. What I can tell you is that what I am hearing is very intelligible and not at all annoying. That is a huge improvement.

This is on a two clip Standard. I'm going to put it up for sale soon along with its small collection of brown wax records and its matching Automatic recorder. I just want to get everything with it really well sorted first and Wyatt sure helped me clear a really major hurdle.


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:11 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:05 am
Posts: 52
Thanks for your post. About a year and a half ago I purchased an unusual reproducer from an auction in Europe as I recall. Upon receipt I noted it was machined entirely of brass and appeared to be a one-off. Lots of interesting work. Upon reassembly the metal diaphragh rattled even with the NOS French gaskets.

On a lark I cut a strip of Victor Exhbition gasket material and carefully with a razor slit one side of the tube gasket. I then mounted it around the metal diaphragm and assembled the reproducer. Perfect, the rattle disappeared. I was excited to see that you determined the same result.

I have applied this method to many other reproducers and as long as you have the space to work with to fasten tight it works fine. I did share this attached photo on the Forum at the time but cannot find it now.

Again, thanks for sharing. Always great to find ways to make things work better.
Larry Hawes


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Victor Monarch
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It seems the Victor engineers took the same line of thought with the Victrola No.2 sound box gaskets. :)

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: *nearly* eliminating blast/rattle on Edison reproducers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Victor III
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The best method is to draw it over the end of a razor, and down its edge. Cuts a slot perfectly.


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