input on pricing a victor IV with wood horn??

[brianu]

I'm not really looking for a value, but instead was wondering whether the price I've been asking for my victor IV (extremely nice condition, original finish, motor and reproducer properly cleaned and rebuilt) with mahogany speartip horn (also very nice original condition) is way out of line at $3400. I don't expect it to sell any time soon, and frankly I don't really want it to sell, but I've got to get rid of about 10 of my remaining 40 machines, and basically, whichever ones sell first are going, I'll keep the rest...

basically what prompted the post was the responses I was getting to my craigslist ad... which basically shows photos of a few different machines, identifies some that I'm selling, and indicates that aside from some rarer ones (ie., external horn models like the IV), most are priced under $500, with the cheapest around $200 (a restored VV-VI). in any event, I get the typical, need one for a gift, been looking for one for years, emails that ask about what I've got, what the prices are. I usually tell them about the more common, cheaper ones unless they ask otherwise... the VI, VIII, IX, VV-80, etc. the responses are always then, what about outside horn models... when I tell them what I've got (which also include, for example, a victor V for $2000), I never hear back from them. I'm assuming that these people either just don't realize what these things are worth, or they figure that I don't and they're happening upon something for nothing?

[Zeppy]

People looking for a bargain is my guess. As far as I can tell, your prices sound reasonable. I've seen some bargains pop up on ebay with much lower prices, but they invariably need work (and rarely have a wood horn, if any horn).

I really can't be too judgemental about that approach (although a thank you very much for your time would be nice). My current attitude is that unless it's a real bargain, I just can't really invest too much money in new toys at the moment. Student loans repayment on the horizon, and a 9 month old are my new ways to spend my pay check. But if it's the deal of a life time, you better believe I'll pounce on it. Sure, that might make me a vulture to some extent, but it's just a matter of economics.

[brianu]

it's not really the disinterest of some after they learn of the prices, rather the way they just disappear after requesting more details, information, photos, etc., and then not even a thank you for your time, or sorry, it's out of my price range or whatever... just some sort of acknowledgement would make the waste of time seem less of a waste, I guess.

[ColoradoPhonograf]

Brian,

I have to agree that it seems to be bargain shoppers lurking out there, and there is nothing wrong with that, I guess. As a seller I can understand the efforts you probably put out for information, additional pictures, etc.

I don't think your pricing is out of line too much. I needed a Spearpoint Mahogany horn for a similar setup a couple of years ago and was happy to get a "phonofriends" lead on one for $1600. The prices for Vic. IV's have dropped a bit due to the economy in general but since both have original finish and as a combo I think it makes a good package in the $3200-3400 range. I actually wouldn't drop less than that. It sounds like a very nice machine and would probably be a "keeper" rather than letting it go from under you in the long run.

Sell 3 of the $500 machines and you'll be happy you kept it long term.

My opinion,
ColoradoPhonograf

[Steve]

Sell 3 of the $500 machines and you'll be happy you kept it long term.

First of all, I agree with the statement above. Okay, we're talking very different machines here, but several years ago now I needed a quick injection of cash to buy a newer vehicle. I asked a dealer if he would buy back my G & T 'Trademark' type machine - the one featured on here earlier this year - as this would have provided all the cash I needed. Luckily for me (later on) the dealer disappeared off the radar (probably knowing that he could not return the money I paid for it and wanted to avoid a potentially embarrassing moment?) so I never got to sell it. Instead, I threw out some of my smaller and lesser machines and made up the balance with a short-term loan. Boy, I am now relieved that I did? I would have been gutted today to have remembered that I had that machine and lost it for what would have been a car that is now been long gone and very likely parked on a scrap heap somewhere!

I'm not thanking the dealer for ignoring me but indirectly he did me a long-term favour, although he'll never know it now. My point is that it is always easier to replace the lesser machines later on. The good stuff is not so easy to find again.

As to why potential buyers 'disappear', I have no idea. In fact, the older I get and the more I learn, the less I seem to know about people! Put bluntly and to quote a well known Yorkshire phrase: "There is nowt as queer as folk"

I find this situation at work where people telephone us asking for quotes and then call back wanting to know more about what we do. We give them all the details and they go away saying something like "Great! We'll get back to you tomorrow". Alas, tomorrow never comes. Are they simply shopping around to get price comparisons and ideas? Who knows!

[Jerry B.]

Last summer at the Elgin, Illinois church sale there was a extremely nice Vic IV with a wood horn. The machine was all original with an excellent original finish and the after market mahogany horn matched it perfectly. The horn and machine looked like they had been together for the last century. I don't remember the maker of the horn but it was large and in my opinion equal in value to the Victor spear tip. I think the asking price was $3000 and it did not sell. I think the seller packed up his items and returned to Omaha without going to Union. Jerry

[Steve]

and in my opinion equal in value to the Victor spear tip

That's an interesting point. How do other collectors 'value' after-market horns of roughly equivalent size and quality? I have a Monarch with Music Master horn which is better quality than the Victor/HMV equivalents BUT it does not necessarily mean that it is worth the same as the 'correct' horn. I prefer it because I like to get the best quality where possible but purists might not take to it so well?

[Jerry B.]

It's my observation that the newer collector that's buying his first wood horn Victor wants the Victor horn to go with his Victor machine. As a long time collector, I am fortunate to own several machines with wood horns. From my perspective it's more interesting to see the Vic IV with the after market horn rather then the spear tip horn. As for value and both horns are equal in condition, I think the horns are about equal in value. If you should find an after market horn with inlays or something unusual the value goes sky high. Jerry Blais

[beaumonde]

Not that it is terribly relevant, but Phonophan currently has on his website a Victor IV with refinished cabinet and bell horn for $2950.

So I would say that yours, being totally original, with original mahogany horn, is not out of line at all.

That said, I think a got an amazing deal last year on my all-original Victor V with oak speartip horn and matching serpentine-door, clawfoot-legged base cabinet, for $3500...

[brianu]

hey adam,

I noticed phonophan's site... the vic IV with the brass bell horn for 2950. he's also got a vic III with oak speartip horn for 3950, and the last vic IV with mahogany speartip horn he had I think was listed for even more.

that V set-up of yours though is extremely nice. I actually missed one of those serpentine cabinets in mahogany about a year ago - was at an auction my father went to, then he left early, end of story. I can't imagine that the cabinet sold for much more than 100 bucks at this particular auction though, so bah.