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 Post subject: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:06 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 35
I just bought this Edison Triumph Model D. It is missing the crane and horn, though it still has a great old crane support screwed to the rear. It has a 3-weight governor, and this interesting slide-out lift lever that I've never seen before. Am I correct in assuming that this is an early Triumph Model D? I am looking for an appropriate horn and crane for this, while utilizing the old crane support on the rear if possible. Would the correct horn be a 12-panel straight horn, and if so, could I use a rear-mount crane with the existing support with this?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:29 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
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Interesting... Does the front of the cabinet including the underside of the front show any evidence of a front mount crane? I always thought that Edison's Morning Glory horns were introduced and included with the introduction of all the D series machines. It's hard to imagine that that new Edison owners would want something other than the latest Edison had to offer. But variations are what makes collecting interesting.

When checking the underside of the front of the cabinet there may be pilot holes or marks that were never filled with screws that were part of the crane assembly.

Jerry Blais


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Victor VI
I have good days...this might not be one of them
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 5:23 pm
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That crane socket looks like someone cobbed it together at home.


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:34 pm 
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Victor III
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I've never seen that sliding carriage lift-lower device either. I have a few late Edison Triumphs in the collection and all of mine have the original (conventional) carriage lift. Judging by the wear seen on the rear of the wood bedplate frame, this had a rear mounted crane (whether home made or not is debatable). I've never seen a horn crane bracket(?) like that one either but admittedly it does appear to be a bit cobbled.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:47 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 35
The carriage lift works extremely well, by the way.

Actually, now that I've gotten a better look at the machine, it does appear as though this machine had a front-mounted crane at some point. Perhaps someone added a rear-mount later?

So, would the correct horn be basically the same straight black paneled horn used on the Standard and Home models of the time? If so, would the horn decal specifically state "Triumph" or something else?

Thanks - Mike


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Triumph 9.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
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The factory offered horn would have been this 12 panel "Triumph" horn. Based on those 4 holes in the back it might have been upgraded to accommodate an 11 panel cygnet or oak music master horn later.


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:58 pm 
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Victor III
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I see only two screws holding that "flower" shaped horn 'bracket' in the rear so since there is not a complete picture of the rear of the cabinet is the set of 4 screw holes that you pictured most recently an additional set of screw holes in the rear of the cabinet? The configuration of those 4 screw holes does not appear to be consistent with those used on an Edison Cygnet horn bracket nor does the "shadow foot print" appear to be from a Cygnet bracket. However, as Bruce alluded to, someone in the past may have used a Cygnet horn on this and possibly made up a bracket for these holes to secure it.

By the way, was the mandrel bearing seized on this when you acquired it? They're almost always seized up on the Edison C, D, E, F models. If not then you're lucky! :)

And, as Bruce mentioned, the 12 panel black horn offered with this would indeed indicate "Triumph" on the decal and it is a VERY substantial horn! (easily knocked over too.)

Doug


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:55 pm
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The early Triumph "D's" came with a front mount 12 panel "Triumph" labeled horn, as shown in Bruce's picture.
Once the cygnet horn was introduced, you could purchase a Triumph with it, or upgrade your machine with it.
Once the "O" reproducer was introduced, you could purchase a Triumph with the large flat carriage and the cygnet.
The triumph cygnet had an 11 panel bell and could be purchased in black or woodgrained in oak or mahogany.
With the introduction of the cygnet, a Music Master wood bell was available in oak or mahogany with matching woodgrained elbow.
(They even went so far as to offer an inlaid mother or pearl option).

When the Triumph model "D" came with a cygnet from the factory, the ID tag will say "D2".

You're very lucky in that it looks like someone has cleaned and gone thru your motor, installed a new belt, and freed the mandrel.

If it were my machine, I would opt to add an original cygnet bracket, to cover the holes from the funky back bracket. Then I would search for an 11 panel cygnet. Since both the straight horn and cygnet horn are huge, using the cygnet helps get it out of the way.

In my opinion one of the best sounding 2/4min cylinder machines is a Triumph with a cygnet and "O" reproducer.

Cheers, Bob S.


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Last edited by Zwebie on Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Victor VI
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Edison Records - Close your eyes and see if the artist does not actually seem to be before you.
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:28 pm
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Location: Česká Republika
Zwebie wrote:
The early Triumph "D's" came with a front mount 12 panel "Triumph" labeled horn, as shown in Bruce's picture.
Once the cygnet horn was introduced, you could purchase a Triumph with it, or upgrade your machine with it.
Once the "O" reproducer was introduced, you could purchase a Triumph with the large flat carriage and the cygnet.
The triumph cygnet had an 11 panel bell and could be purchased in black or woodgrained in oak or mahogany.
With the introduction of the cygnet, a Music Master wood bell was available in oak or mahogany with matching woodgrained elbow.
(They even went so far as to offer an inlaid mother or pearl option).

Among collectors, when the Triumph model "D" came with a cygnet, it is usually referred to as a "D-2".


You're very lucky in that it looks like someone has cleaned and gone thru your motor, installed a new belt, and freed the mandrel.

If it were my machine, I would opt to add an original cygnet bracket, to cover the holes from the funky back bracket. Then I would search for an 11 panel cygnet. Since both the straight horn and cygnet horn are huge, using the cygnet helps get it out of the way.

In my opinion one of the best sounding 2/4min cylinder machines is a Triumph with a cygnet and "O" reproducer.

Cheers, Bob S.


I agree with you Bob. The Triumph is also less prone to problems than the 1A, 1B, III, Opera imho.


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 Post subject: Re: Correct horn for this Edison Triumph Model D
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:28 am
Posts: 35
Thanks, everyone, for the help.

I apologize for not being more specific when I posted the last photos. The photo showing the four screw holes is on the underside of the case, near the front. I assume that this is where the bracket and foot of a front-mounted crane would have been, presumably from when the machine was originally sold. Perhaps someone added a rear-mount crane later - (That's the photo of the flower-shaped iron mount - screwed to the rear of the case).

The machine runs great, on both 2 and 4-minute settings, and the bed plate is immaculate. It's my first Triumph, and a nice machine. Now the search begins for a proper crane and horn...

Thanks,
Mike


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