Just Amazing

[m1tch]

That machine looks amazing, but its a shame it looks too new awesome machine, wrong condition, it looks like something you can make instead of something with history

[bbphonoguy]

To continue the "is it worth it or not" conversation, I can only speak for myself. I doesn't matter to me what it's worth, because whatever it's value is, it's more than I would want to pay. If I was able to drop $135,000 on a phonograph without missing it, I still wouldn't buy this. If I could afford to blow that sort of money on a musical device I would get a Regina disc changer or a Phonoliszt Violina, or something like that.

[phono10]

Let me be clear about what I was saying. I have no connection to any multiphone for sale. But a very close friend sold one to another close friend this year and the price was in the six figures. It was not and is not the same machine as is listed on ebay at this time. My objection was to people stating that the highest price for a phonograph ever was in the $50-75,000 which just isn't true. Some people have very deep pockets. Can the market support another one, is it worth 135,000, I really don't know. I am just stating that high prices have been seen "in the back room" and that $100,000 is not a truly bizarre number. I am not saying that this multiphone is, or is not worth $135,000 that depends on the purchaser and the seller. Don't discourage or put people down for paying for rare or unusual machines, it helps us lower end collectors and our collections in the long run. If this were antique toys you wouldn't be surprised at very rare antique toys occasionally selling in the $100,000 range.

[JohnM]

Let me be clear about what I was saying. I have no connection to any multiphone for sale. But a very close friend sold one to another close friend this year and the price was in the six figures. It was not and is not the same machine as is listed on ebay at this time. My objection was to people stating that the highest price for a phonograph ever was in the $50-75,000 which just isn't true. Some people have very deep pockets. Can the market support another one, is it worth 135,000, I really don't know. I am just stating that high prices have been seen "in the back room" and that $100,000 is not a truly bizarre number. I am not saying that this multiphone is, or is not worth $135,000 that depends on the purchaser and the seller. Don't discourage or put people down for paying for rare or unusual machines, it helps us lower end collectors and our collections in the long run. If this were antique toys you wouldn't be surprised at very rare antique toys occasionally selling in the $100,000 range.

Please re-read my post. I did not state anything "untrue". This is what it said (and I have emphasized a portion in quoting):

"$75K for a Moorish-marquetry VTLA/L-door XVI (not sure which model it actually is) at auction back in about 2001 is the highest price of which I'm aware."

I am now aware that machines have sold for more than that -- thank you -- and I was referencing all the way back to 2001 in my statement. I am also close friends with a certain restorer/dealer who recently had three Multiphones at his place at one time -- know who I am referencing?

[phono10]

You're right, you were only quoting a public auction price, I should not have stated otherwise. I was reacting more to the general assumption in this post from several people that a phonograph could not easily be worth between $50,000 to $100,000, or that $100,000 as a number, for a super rare and desirable machine was somehow artificial inflated or even dishonest.

As someone stated:
"Such sales are publicized for other reasons, to flaunt the sale or transaction to show that investments are healthy in a certain sector, or for the mere curiosity/entertainment aspect of some affluent personage throwing millions at some random novelty, etc."

Why must we in general undermine this hobby by devaluing the higher end items in the market by implying that there is something artificial or unsavory about offering them for sale for a substantial amount of money. A collector we all know has a Bell and Tainter foot treadle machine, that would certainly be in the 50 to 150,000 machine. I could personally understand how a super rare machine like that would be more "desirable" for a large amount of money as opposed to a multiphone even if is not exactly playable....... But to each their own. Again I really don’t know what a Multiphone, heavily restored, should be worth.

[tarheeltinkerer]

A lesson my father taught me (the man who got me into collecting in general, just not phonographs) is that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Yes, this is a "well, duh" statement, but applicable in almost any instance of antique hunting. If this seller received $135K for this multiphone, well congrats them. Personally, I would rather buy a damn house for this level of funding and a few other nice machines rather than just one which I would be on pins and needles about doing anything with other than saying "yes, I own a multiphone, and no, you can't touch it."

I'm rather content with fixing up my new VV 4-7 and enjoying listening to old 78s in a month or two...and it didn't cost me $135K either

[SonnyPhono]

Wow, I'm sorry I started this thread. I didn't mean to cause such a pointless argument about price. Like I said, in my book it's the "best of the best". But my book is different than the next guys. I was just sharing a nice phonograph with fellow collectors. If you aren't planning on bidding/buying it, then why waste time commenting on price? That wasn't the point of the thread.

Again, sorry to cause a stir. I just wanted to share it with everyone. Lesson learned.

[brianu]

Wow, I'm sorry I started this thread. I didn't mean to cause such a pointless argument about price. Like I said, in my book it's the "best of the best". But my book is different than the next guys. I was just sharing a nice phonograph with fellow collectors. If you aren't planning on bidding/buying it, then why waste time commenting on price? That wasn't the point of the thread.

Again, sorry to cause a stir. I just wanted to share it with everyone. Lesson learned.

if you hadn't begun a thread discussing this rare machine, then I'm sure someone else would have (and true, one person's notion of the best, let alone the best of the best, is a pretty subjective one). discussions of machines, particularly the rare ones and obviously when they're being offered for sale, will naturally involve some talk of value. beyond that, this is a forum for such discussion and this specific discussion (value) is one that many people here typically find interesting if not useful. so I would hardly consider the comments above a waste of time simply because they might not appeal to you. and frankly, I don't see anything approaching argument in this thread, some debate perhaps, but nothing more. if anything seems pointless at this point, it's an apology for starting this thread.

[brianu]

You're right, you were only quoting a public auction price, I should not have stated otherwise. I was reacting more to the general assumption in this post from several people that a phonograph could not easily be worth between $50,000 to $100,000, or that $100,000 as a number, for a super rare and desirable machine was somehow artificial inflated or even dishonest.

As someone stated:
"Such sales are publicized for other reasons, to flaunt the sale or transaction to show that investments are healthy in a certain sector, or for the mere curiosity/entertainment aspect of some affluent personage throwing millions at some random novelty, etc."

Why must we in general undermine this hobby by devaluing the higher end items in the market by implying that there is something artificial or unsavory about offering them for sale for a substantial amount of money. A collector we all know has a Bell and Tainter foot treadle machine, that would certainly be in the 50 to 150,000 machine. I could personally understand how a super rare machine like that would be more "desirable" for a large amount of money as opposed to a multiphone even if is not exactly playable....... But to each their own. Again I really don’t know what a Multiphone, heavily restored, should be worth.

your last sentence pretty much sums things up... few if any people will know the worth because so few of those machines are floating around, let alone selling. so naturally, when one of them - for that matter, when any phonograph - shows up for sale at a price that's (I think we can all agree on this) at the highest end of the price spectrum for phonographs, it will generate some discussion among people who are interested, who collect phonographs, who are intested in them or in antiques, or who just follow auctions. to each his own applies equally to the sharing of one's opinion on such matters, especially on forums for discussion.

and really, I don't understand your remark about undermining the hobby. that's a bit dramatic, no? if a hobby can be undermined simply by discussing the subject of that hobby (which includes value and cost in one such as this), then where does that leave us? also, to remove the above-quoted comments from context and then mischaracterize them as suggesting only something artificial or unsavory about this particular auction or such highend sales in general is not only inaccurate, but also naive. public auctions serve various purposes beyond just moving goods from buyer to seller, although I'd imagine you'd know that given that you said you've worked for a major auction house. and at times, such purposes, whether or not intended by the seller or the buyer or anyone in particular, can certainly lean toward the artificial, the dishonest, and most definitely an inflated result.

and yes, you know, although I don't think that the real thrust of this thread or how it has evolved really focused on this, but I don't agree... I truly don't think any phonograph could easily be worth $50k to $100k or more. that's a lot of money to the vast vast vast majority people, and even people with such money typically don't throw it at just anything especially in this market. things are worth, as someone else pointed out, simply what someone with the means is willing to pay for them. be that as it may, and I don't think it demeans or devalues anything to share opinions, and mine is that I highly doubt that this will sell on ebay for 135k - it doesn't matter who's selling it, which is irrelevant. if I said anything else it would be dishonest. beyond that - and I'm not saying this is the case here, but hypothetically - I think your comments fail to consider the effect on any given market of offering things at inflated prices that people can't or won't pay, which in turn results in a saturation of the market with too much that costs too much to the point where all the prices begin to plummet.

and again, if such things cannot be discussed in places such as this (for fear, what, that some potential buyer with an extra 135k in his pocket might stumble across this forum and then think twice???), then what's the point of them?

[JohnM]

I'm not overly offended by the appearance of the restoration of this example. I'm sure it required a major effort to restore it. Perhaps the stratospheric price reflects the percentage of parts that are replicated and the man hours required to do so -- in addition to the rarity/desirability factors?

I counted Multiphones as I went to sleep last night and I came up with ten that I could think of in both case styles, and including the example in the re-created saloon in the basement of the Museum of the American West in LA's Griffith Park.

Back in the mid-1980's, I looked through the door of a boutique that was going out of business on Melrose Avenue in LA and saw a gutted Multiphone cabinet with glass shelves installed being used as a display case. I wrote a note and slipped it into the crack of the shop door, but never received a reply. Closest I've ever come to owning one!