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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:11 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:24 pm
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Interesting. Do you know when they started doing so? That BI has a Music Master, so I assume it was after that. What would have been standard equipment on this phonograph?


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Victor V
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Location: NW Indiana B-19;VV-IV; VV-VI;VV-XVI; Edison Home B; Amberola 30; Col. BK; Magnola;
If I remember right, the Sears & Roebuck catalogs called the reproducer with the aluminum diaphragm, the “Analyzing Reproducer”. These probably sounded better than mica.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Victor III
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Location: New Hampshire’s West Coast
I have that same horn on my BI. The condition of yours looks quite good. I don’t know if the small hole is worth bothering with. If I was going to repair the hole I would glue a dowel in, keeping it sub flush to both surfaces. Then I would make some sawdust from Oak, stained close to a match. Add some white glue to one face of the dowel and add some sawdust. After it sets up, you can turn the horn over and do opposite end. It works quite well.

The missing piece would require finding some closely matching veneer. Make a pattern and build it up in thin layers and clamp the glued layers around a curved surface with a radius close to that of the horn. After the glue sets up it will retain the curve. Stain to match. Shellac and them dull the finish to match. If you luck out, it will be at the bottom of the horn when it’s mounted.

I have a BII and a BI. I don’t know the production numbers, but I have seen many more of the BI.

As far as replating goes, I would try cleaning and polishing first. If it looks presentable, leave it. If not, have it plated. I would rather have original playing that is less than perfect than plated parts that look out of place. In the end it is a matter preference.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Hyperion wrote:
Interesting. Do you know when they started doing so? That BI has a Music Master, so I assume it was after that. What would have been standard equipment on this phonograph?


Music Master horns were offered as aftermarket items, and I don't believe they were offered by Columbia. Such a horn would have been purchased or ordered through a dealer. I once found a Victor VI equipped with a Music Master horn in a house. The only manufacturers I can think of who offered Music Master horns on their machines as original equipment are Edison and Vitaphone. There may be others, but I'm pretty sure Columbia wasn't one of them.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:22 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:24 pm
Posts: 36
phonogfp wrote:
Hyperion wrote:
Interesting. Do you know when they started doing so? That BI has a Music Master, so I assume it was after that. What would have been standard equipment on this phonograph?


Music Master horns were offered as aftermarket items, and I don't believe they were offered by Columbia. Such a horn would have been purchased or ordered through a dealer.


Interesting. In your opinion, would the presence of such a horn on a machine add value to it as compared to a Columbia dealer-offered wooden horn?


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:49 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Michiana
phonogfp wrote:
Hyperion wrote:
Interesting. Do you know when they started doing so? That BI has a Music Master, so I assume it was after that. What would have been standard equipment on this phonograph?


Music Master horns were offered as aftermarket items, and I don't believe they were offered by Columbia. Such a horn would have been purchased or ordered through a dealer. I once found a Victor VI equipped with a Music Master horn in a house. The only manufacturers I can think of who offered Music Master horns on their machines as original equipment are Edison and Vitaphone. There may be others, but I'm pretty sure Columbia wasn't one of them.

George P.


I never saw Music Master horn's offered as standard equipment on the BI or BII in any of the Columbia advertising material that I've seen, but the smooth Music Master horn's WERE supplied with the BNW and with the BNWM. In fact I have a filthy, untouched, attic find BNWM with just such a horn which is awaiting rejuvenation.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:42 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 5917
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Hyperion wrote:
phonogfp wrote:
Hyperion wrote:
Interesting. Do you know when they started doing so? That BI has a Music Master, so I assume it was after that. What would have been standard equipment on this phonograph?


Music Master horns were offered as aftermarket items, and I don't believe they were offered by Columbia. Such a horn would have been purchased or ordered through a dealer.


Interesting. In your opinion, would the presence of such a horn on a machine add value to it as compared to a Columbia dealer-offered wooden horn?


Personally, I like the Wooden Phonograph Horn Co. product more, but that's purely a question of taste. Many, many collectors don't want a machine that isn't "catalog equipped."

Uncle Vanya wrote:

I never saw Music Master horn's offered as standard equipment on the BI or BII in any of the Columbia advertising material that I've seen, but the smooth Music Master horn's WERE supplied with the BNW and with the BNWM. In fact I have a filthy, untouched, attic find BNWM with just such a horn which is awaiting rejuvenation.


Thanks for that - - and now that you mention it, a BNWM with a Music Master seems vaguely familiar. A few of the late (1910-1912) Zonophones too. Do you happen to have a catalog illustration/description of a BNW or BNWM with such a horn?

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:19 am 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Michiana
Here is the catalog page for (as I recall) 1913.
Attachment:
ColBNWMDemo.jpg
ColBNWMDemo.jpg [ 195.05 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]


The 1915 catalog shows the 60H with the oak version of this horn:
Attachment:
ColBIIDemo.jpg
ColBIIDemo.jpg [ 136.96 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:42 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 5917
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Beautiful! Thank you, Uncle - -

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: What is this machine, and does the reproducer look right
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:18 am 
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Victor V
His epigrams are all his own, the man's an epigramophone!
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 2625
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
From the 1913 UK Columbia catalogue, extolling the merits of wooden horns :


Attachments:
1913.jpg
1913.jpg [ 85.66 KiB | Viewed 224 times ]
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