This would easily bring $1,000 at an antique dealer's.
besides not finishing the sentance (and antique dealer's what?), how did he come up with that figure? Does he really think it could get that price? Does he have any clue at all of its value? Is he b.s.ing or just clueles?
And would it kill him to dust the thing before taking pictures? You're trying to convince people this $300-400 item is worth a grand. Would it kill you to run a rag over it first?
LOL... yah, you see that a lot... more so on craigslist. People see something old and with no research or anything just take a guess at its worth... or what they think it's worth.
And the seller seems to think that the Readers Digest box set of LPs (pictured in the fourth photo) are 78s. That pushes the guy into "clueless" territory.
B.S. or not, I now know why sellers do this and never clean items before photo'ing them; apparently it's an antique trade trait and its purpose is to make the prospective buyer believe that the item is straight out of an attic.
I myself run a mile whenever I see a glossy pristine machine advertised anywhere, with new turntable felt and pristine white gaskets in the soundbox - you know it's been messed about with, for better or worse.
When you see dirt, dust and grime you're supposed to be inspired and start believing that no one has ever touched the machine.
Last edited by Steve on Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Old Fred 'When You're Dead, Call Fred/I Look For The Wreath On The Door' McCole used to tell me, "If I has to wipe it off the price goes up another hundred dollars".
A colorful man. I got a lot of good machines from him because I lived closer to him than any other collector in Los Angeles. Phone would ring, voice with Texas drawl . . . "First peckerwood over here with $xxx gets a [fill in blank with great phonograph] . . . and I'm about to wipe it off . . . if I has to wipe it off, etc." Man, I would blaze over there! He's back in Texas now . . . gotta be older than dirt. Anyone on the board know him? Fred lived in a small stucco-over-frame house in South Gate, a suburb of Los Angeles that is now predominately Spanish-speaking. He had stayed in California after he mustered out of the Navy in Long Beach after WWII. He had a couch, a chair, a small dining room table and chairs, a bed, a dresser, and everything else was phonographs. The garage was packed full of them. And he wasn't a collector, he was a dealer, and a shrewd old school version at that. Fred referred to it as "horse tradin' and horn-swagglin'". Not that Fred wasn't honest, but he enjoyed keeping you just enough off-balance in conducting a transaction that he could pick your pocket if he wanted to -- adding and subtracting cranks, reproducers, horns, cranes, the price going up and down. I'd do just about anything to prevent the dreaded "Waaal, I'll just keep it, I'll just call [insert name of some nefarious rival collector] . . . he told me to call him when I get one of these . . . I shouldn'ta broke my promise". Sometimes by the time he was done with you, you'd be begging him to buy a machine from him. It was equal parts business and entertainment with Fred, but brother, you had better have some thick skin! I wish I had a time machine to relive all of my visits to Fred's house (not to mention the tall stacks of $20/ea. Berliners/Johnsons/Consolidateds I used to so casually sort through that were kept in the hallway linen closet).
Another time I was in New Mexico, the "Land of Enchantment". I think it was in Gallup that I was in a junk shop that was more outdoors than indoors and found just one grit-covered record worth buying in a box of records stowed on a low shelf. As I was paying for it, I remarked, "No charge for the dust, right?", trying to make the leathery-looking woman smile. "That ain't dust, honey," she replied without missing a beat, "that's enchantment".
John M
"All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds." Richard Brautigan
I really enjoyed your last posting - - had to read it to my wife. I've never met Fred, but I could swear I've been there! The guy who used to put me through the wringer was a fellow named Jim Strange...
Anyway, you should write, John. Perhaps an article now and then in the Sound Box?
To a certain extent, I can almost understand the mentality of someone who seems to be working on the lines of an estate liquidator...just move the stuff out as fast as possible (and the, "if I dust it off the price goes up $100). But generally, if you're going to the trouble to post the item on ebay, you're alreaady made far more effort. I would think the very effort of putting it on ebay means you're trying to maximize profit (otherwise, just throw it on craig's list or in a yard sale)...just my feelings.
As for the $1000 comment...would it kill a seller to do the most basic research...you know...like run a search on ebay for Victrola IX and see the half dozen or so that are always on ebay for $150 to $400 depending on their condition? But then again, there are always idiots that get suckered into bidding a crapophone up to $500...so I suppose "a sucker is born every miniute" can always give a seller hope for his sucker to come along.
Zeppy,
It is ironic that the same people that can list an item on eBay (usually for max $) are so lazy that they can't work Google (or eBay search) to get some basic facts straight. I frequently contact sellers on eBay and Craigslist who appear to be struggling and help them with their descriptions. I always try to defuse the situation (no one likes to be corrected)by stating that buyers are more likely to buy from an informed seller as the over-all description including condition, etc. is likely to be more accurate. I would think that five minutes of research might have a significant impact on profits . . . isn't that motivation enough?!
George,
Thanks for the compliments! I was one of the first members of CAPS twenty-five years ago and a frequent contributor to The Sound Box when it was 8.5x11, photocopied, stapled and folded. I enjoy writing, but now I just sound like a doddering old-timer. There has been so much research done in the past twenty years that I'm no longer qualified to speak to much as an authority that isn't already known. I sure do like to read stuff though! I suppose I could write about Weber-cabinet I-A's with blue bed plates . . . but then, who would believe me???!!!
John
"All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds." Richard Brautigan
phonophan79 wrote:LOL... yah, you see that a lot... more so on craigslist. People see something old and with no research or anything just take a guess at its worth... or what they think it's worth.
That Craigslist can be pretty wacky.
Just the other night, I saw on the Seattle Craigslist, someone trying to sell a 78 set of highlights from Porgy And Bess for, yes, 1000 dollars. It wasn't a typo because I checked it again tonight and it's come down to 900.
Zeppy wrote:
And would it kill him to dust the thing before taking pictures? You're trying to convince people this $300-400 item is worth a grand. Would it kill you to run a rag over it first?
Not that I'm excusing this particular dealer, but here's a couple observations from similar situations:
Flash shots always seem to highlight the worst details. The dust inside the horn probably wasn't all that obvious but the flash brings it out. Also, small details like that aren't always visible in the little picture in back of the camera and lots of people (myself included) don't look too close at things once we upload them from the camera. It's only when you're facing an enlargement on the screen that you notice things like the dust pussies on the floor under the cabinet.
Regarding dusting- maybe it's best that some things get left alone. I've seen machines where someone thought they'd "Improve" things by wiping the cabinet down with a nice coating of linseed oil, or giving it a coat of Valspar- and a nice coat of white paint with a "Distressed" finish isn't unknown. I once dug through a pile of records that had been coated with oil to clean them and make them look nice and shiny. (Worst thing was it ruined some of the labels).
As to the price- antique shops that specialize in decorative articles will often ask insane prices for items we'd call relatively common. The operative term is "Ask" - they may not get it, but that's what they'll ask.
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