The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Victor VI
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 3702
Location: Merritt Island, FL
Humm, in no particular order:

A Victrola XX

A Victor VI

A lion's head Reginaphone

Pathé Actuelle

AN HMV Melba, complete with original matching base. Come to think of it, this might be #1. An over-the-top machine.

Now where would I put them? I have no idea. There is no room at the inn.


Clay
Arthur W. J. G. Ord-Hume's Laws of Collecting
1. Space will expand to accommodate an infinite number of possessions, regardless of their size.
2. Shortage of finance, however dire, will never prevent the acquisition of a desired object, however improbable its cost.


Last edited by FloridaClay on Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 11:55 am
Posts: 187
EDISON B-375 "LOUIS XV" DIAMOND DISK PHONOGRAPH

I would love to have the one on Musical Treasures of Miami's website.


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:56 pm
Posts: 57
Location: Michigan
Very well said! There's nothing wrong with a little self reflection….


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:24 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1787
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Hailey wrote:
gramophone-georg wrote:
I'm zipping my flame suit up here. OK, here goes. :lol:

I want a sorry Victor VI with a roached cabinet and no horn so I can replate all the metal and put it in one of Eduardo's Vic VI cabinets with one of his matching record cabinets underneath, topped with a matching Eduardo mahogany horn.

I want the cabinet filled with mint red label Monarchs, Deluxes, and a few Special Deluxes thrown in.

Game over at my house.


With so many original Victor VI's out there...only one thing comes to mind - Why??


Because I always wanted a new one, and Eduardo's work is incredible. It's just one of those "things". If I had the skills to build those cabinets myself I'd do it. I can do a lot of things but that is out of my league.

I have rescued enough authentic machines to deserve it. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:26 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:55 am
Posts: 1787
Location: Eugene/ Springfield Oregon USA
Viva-voce wrote:
Viva-voce wrote:
gramophone-georg wrote:
I'm zipping my flame suit up here. OK, here goes. :lol:

I want a sorry Victor VI with a roached cabinet and no horn so I can replate all the metal and put it in one of Eduardo's Vic VI cabinets with one of his matching record cabinets underneath, topped with a matching Eduardo mahogany horn.

I want the cabinet filled with mint red label Monarchs, Deluxes, and a few Special Deluxes thrown in.

Game over at my house.



Hahaha --I love it :)


And make sure those red monarchs include the complete run of the imported 5000 and 91000 series :)


Of course! You think I would do this half fast? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Victor III
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 613
Location: Burbs of Washington, DC
gramophone-georg wrote:
Hailey wrote:
gramophone-georg wrote:
I'm zipping my flame suit up here. OK, here goes. :lol:

I want a sorry Victor VI with a roached cabinet and no horn so I can replate all the metal and put it in one of Eduardo's Vic VI cabinets with one of his matching record cabinets underneath, topped with a matching Eduardo mahogany horn.

I want the cabinet filled with mint red label Monarchs, Deluxes, and a few Special Deluxes thrown in.

Game over at my house.


With so many original Victor VI's out there...only one thing comes to mind - Why??


Because I always wanted a new one, and Eduardo's work is incredible. It's just one of those "things". If I had the skills to build those cabinets myself I'd do it. I can do a lot of things but that is out of my league.

I have rescued enough authentic machines to deserve it. :lol:


I actually had a similar plan...well, somewhat....short of the matching cabinet. Not having the $3k to $5k that a VI goes for, I figured I could get build a more "affordable" new one. I was well on the path as well. I have the motor (early 3 spring that took the split, not threaded winding key), I have a 6 data plate, and once I found a back bracket, I would order the case from Eduardo....but stumbled onto a beat down 6 for a cheap price....so perhaps if I get bored, and stumble onto a couple extra backbrackets (still need one for a Vic D), I may still do it....just for the hell of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:48 pm
Posts: 1238
Location: SF Bay Area, Calif.
The Victor VI was never on my want list, and I normally shy away from restored machines, so it was totally out of character for me to fall head over heels for one restored by Steve Farmer a few years ago, with spruce horn. It was just so incredibly beautiful that I couldn't resist. Then I bought one of Eduardo's record cabinets to display it in my living room. It has become one of my favorite machines. I sometimes refer to is as my "Sanfilippo homage" since Jasper has so many similar machines on display.

A fully restored phonograph with repro record cabinet is out of character for me but what can I say -- it's amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm
Posts: 469
VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
I like the idea of the Auxetophone--a little too complicated but that's half the beauty of it.

As far as market values, I think part of the problem is that the acoustic phonograph suffers from a very poor reputation for sound quality and ease of use. Market value itself is a chancy thing...

The phonographs have value. Intrinsic value. I mean the value inherent in a beautiful thing, the beauty of an old-growth mahogany cabinet (YES I like mahogany, oak isn't the only "Nice" wood!), and the design of a well-made motor or tonearm. I like the hand-carved wings on my common upright Victrola as much as the finger-joints on my Edison Standard, and the simple, industrial design of my Amberola...and that lovely Queen-Anne style aircraft carrier of a console I'm restoring in the basement. Phonographs are good. ALL the phonographs.

To me, a VV-XI carries more human significance than a Class M. The XI was the machine of the people, the musical Model T that brought the average American his first taste of recorded enjoyment. This was only possible with lessons learned from the Class M, of course, and the explosive beauty of exposed wires and brown-wax records is worthy of preservation (And I always wanted to hear one playing a record, just cuz!)

But what makes a Class M worth $20K? Or $25K--they should fetch that for a desperate collector. Well, they're rare and really cool. But suppose Class M's were made for ten or twenty years, and every antique store had one sitting in the back for about $400. Would you crave a Class M then? Or does one only acquire pleasure from owning something other people don't? Because if that's the way it is we're all just a bunch of hipsters playing up to ourselves in the mirror.

We see the same thing on eBay with all the machines being parted out. And in Yankee Trader too. Are there no neighbors nearby to give those old clunkers to? Then you could have some collector buddies nearby and an evening of records and beer would suit most of us just fine.


I think it's time to reconsider our collecting philosophy. If we invest in phonographs, we invest in the subjective feelings of others...they don't like, then the market crashes and we don't love those phonographs as much as we did when they were worth five grand. But if we invest in enjoyment...then we have something worth hanging on to.

The technology is incredible. People hear the phonographs I have and they want one too. Let's also say--if we could travel back in time and buy phonographs we would. So why we don't have new ones nowadays is beyond me. Isn't the technology worth preserving--and I don't mean as display pieces?

How much do we really love phonographs anyway?

Sorry about the article here. Just been thinking about value a lot lately with purchasing a Vic I...I read too much philosophy but it's part of my job description.


I really like to hear what motivates other collectors to collect what they do, or to veer off in one certain direction as opposed to another. What makes a Class M worth 20K will depend on numerous factors. I really do not believe that desperation has anything to do with it, nor does having the pleasure of owning something that somebody else does not. If they were produced for 10 or 20 years, and if every antique store had one in the back room for $400, of course they would not demand the attention that they do now. But, like it or not...rarity is one of the factors that drives the market on nearly every item of antiquity. I can recall, as an early novice collector, telling myself that I would certainly never be able to acquire "one of those disc machines w/ a horn". As most young collectors, I struggled to purchase what I did, and that was commonly an item that most collectors today would turn their noses up to. Yet, as years have gone by, like other collectors, my capabilities have changed, as well as has my focus. As it has happened, I have sold scores of those "horned disc machines", and more importantly, have given several to young collectors. Although it is not my primary driving factor...I am one of the minority that is concerned about a return on my dollar once the day comes that I disperse MY collection. Of course we all like to find that diamond in the rough, yet when I do acquire and pay up for something nowadays, I do so with keeping in mind the concept of investment. I also couple several other factors in with the decision to purchase, none of the least is the enjoyment that the item will bring to me. Again, having absolutely nothing to do with desperation or bragging rights that nobody else has one. In all honesty, if nobody else has one...the item is most likely pretty darn rare. With each and every collector, you SHOULD find what personally motivates them...otherwise known as their philosophy. THAT is why each collector loves phonographs. If we start making comparisons and standardizations regarding philosophies, we destroy the character of the hobby. If a person desires to reproduce an item, namely a rather common item, I bow to their creativity, workmanship, and enthusiasm. Yet, as history has shown, doing so more times than not results in a negative market influence for similar items. However, in the case of the aforementioned Cabinet that Matches for the Victor VI, that original piece is nearly impossible to find. For this reason, the Cabinets that are replicated today are considered a fabulous, and valuable asset to a collection. The production of the contemporary cabinets have not negatively impacted the value of the originals primarily due to the fact that the originals are nearly impossible to find. The same can be said w/ the replica Edison Doll motors that were produced years ago. The originals are nearly possible to find, therefore these replicas can demand good prices, and have never put a black mark on the value of the originals.
So...how much do I really love phonographs?? Much, much more than I ever did. Recalling the journey strengthens that love, and watching the eyes of the novice collector light up when you extend your generosity is incomparable. That is what I consider investing in enjoyment.


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:34 pm
Posts: 201
Edison Idelia model E!


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 Post subject: Re: Phonographs I would love too own, but can't afford
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 2:44 pm
Posts: 469
Schlick wrote:
Edison Idelia model E!


How about the earliest Idelia "A" bearing the earliest Serial Number on record for that machine??


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