The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Victor III
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Here's a pic from the internet of a Pathé that appears to have the brake seen above. This one is even more unusual than the one I found. It attempts to create a stereo sound through the use of two tonearms..Stereo Pathé Duplex (early Twenties)

Steve-

The link to the picture is http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jlf/enphonos.htm

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:17 am 
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Victor III
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I found a pic of a Pathé with the brake seen on my acquisition. BUT- I forgot to log in before I submitted it so it may not show up for a bit. Sorry!!

I also had a brilliant idea (for me anyway). Why not search on the name on the dealer tag?

Louis Van Goitsenhoven was born in 1874 in Brussels, Belgium and died in 1942 in France. He was a director and cinematographer, looks like mainly documentaries during the late teens. One of his titles is "Big Bertha comes to Belgium". What does that have to do with this thread? Nothing! but it was too funny not to include.

Next, I found this picture--
Image

This caption went with it.

http://www.franckh.be/Collection/Van_Go ... hoven.html

The manufacturer of this large folding camera was Louis Van Goitsenhoven (Brussels, 1874 to 1942). The latter was primarily a pioneer of the cinema. He launched the first public cinema in Brussels (1904) and produced a number of films in the beginning of the 20th century (see his filmography). Since only rudimentary cine equipment was available at that time Van Goitsenhoven set up a workshop on his own and started production for his needs and later also for commercialization.

This camera was in use until 1954 in a Belgian factory producing high quality antique furniture. All items produced there (mostly unique pieces) were taken with this camera before being delivered.

OK, now note the ID tag on the camera. Same as on the phono. So did someone get ahold of one of those tags and put it on the phono to fool the crazy American? Or is it something Van Goitsenhoven made in his workshop? or is it something made at the Belgian factory and one of those unique pieces?

The phono is so well made that it definitely was not just slapped together to fool someone. Believe me, I've been fooled many times by junk much worse than this!!!

Well anyway, part of the mystery is solved. A bit of fun homework on a Monday evening. Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:37 am 
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Victor III
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OK, OK, just one more bit of info and I give up for the night. I came across this

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... start%3D20

from the MUSEUM OF OLD TECHNOLOGY
THE REPERTORY OF THE BELGIAN TRADE CATALOGS

but I can't figure out if I can order or download something that might contain some pictures.

As I said, enough from me tonite.


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:51 am
Posts: 435
gramophoneshane wrote:
I was also thinking it could be an early Pathé- perhaps before they started manufacturing their own motors.
Is the speed control located on the side of the machine?
I haven't had a chance to go through the pics in my computer & on disc yet, but I'll do that sometime today.


The early Pathé's starting with the Model A in around 1905 had motors made by Pathé with the kind of kick start lever. So date wise this model - looks amazing by the way - looks post WW1. Symphonion made some horn machines from 1906-1912 with brass pillars (but so did a few other companies)


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:34 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 4:51 pm
Posts: 183
Location: western Missouri
My Pathé Modele D [from that early disc series] has a post on a slide that
catches a pin on one end of the governor to stop the turntable :roll: ---as a result, I've never used it to do anything but hold it after I stopped the turntable by hand.
I am not positive about Thorens motors, but if it has a Pathé motor, the spring will be sized metricaly. I've found that the odd sized Pathé discs measure evenly if you use a metric ruler: the roughly 10 inch sizes are 25 and 26.5 cm; the roughly 12 inch size is 29 cm; and the roughly 14 inch size is 35 cm. Those are the only Pathé disc sizes I have, but I've seen smaller and bigger examples which I had no opportunity to measure. :) Bob Ault


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:58 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
Posts: 2517
Sidewinder wrote:
gramophoneshane wrote:
I was also thinking it could be an early Pathé- perhaps before they started manufacturing their own motors.
Is the speed control located on the side of the machine?
I haven't had a chance to go through the pics in my computer & on disc yet, but I'll do that sometime today.


The early Pathé's starting with the Model A in around 1905 had motors made by Pathé with the kind of kick start lever. So date wise this model - looks amazing by the way - looks post WW1. Symphonion made some horn machines from 1906-1912 with brass pillars (but so did a few other companies)


Ah, so Pathé did start off the disc models with the kick start lever. That rules out it being an actual Pathé model then.
Date wise, I would have put it as pre WWI. The 1910 Thorens catalogue shows nine similar styled table models with a squared off lid, but minus any metal cabinet decorations. There are only 2 with a more rounded lid, and one with the more familiar ogee shape to the lid, so I guess it was around this time the square flat lid was starting to go out of fashion- at least in the Thorens range of machines.

Im starting to think Steve might be right in thinking this particular machine was manufactured in Louis Van Goitsenhovens furniture factory & perhaps based the design on a Thorens or similar continental machine available at the time.

Here's two of the nine flat lided models from the Thorens 1910 catalogue. Many of the models shown have decal decoration, & all have a carry hand on the side, making them somewhat portable provided you'd had a healthy breakfast :)


Attachments:
Thorens Birman.jpg
Thorens Birman.jpg [ 159.87 KiB | Viewed 432 times ]
Thorens Durban.jpg
Thorens Durban.jpg [ 216.68 KiB | Viewed 432 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:04 am 
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Victor III
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Location: okc ok
GShane- Thanks for the pics, they definitely show the influence that was used in the phono I bought. I wrote a note to the museum that supposedly has Trade Catalogs, it's just north of Brussels. I hope they can send me digital or paper copies that might illustrate the fancy phono I got. I'll update this if something shows up in my email.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:14 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:21 pm
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Have you had a chance to check the brand of the motor at all?
Not that it matters...Im just a curious motor freak lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Victor III
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Not yet, I'm heading out of town Friday and have been trying to finish up another project. I'm not going to make it though on that one.

I'm driving to FL to visit my Mom and Dad, go to the Orlando phono show, and bring back some CL purchases I made in NJ that my Dad hauled to FL so I could pick'em up (saves me 10 hrs drive each way). Several more project machines will be in line in the garage.

I'll try to look tonite because if I don't it'll be another week until I get a chance.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Check out this wild thing
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:19 am 
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Victor V
on instagram as "oncedeadsound"
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:35 pm
Posts: 2057
Location: just outside Philadelphia, PA
schweg wrote:
Not yet, I'm heading out of town Friday and have been trying to finish up another project. I'm not going to make it though on that one.

I'm driving to FL to visit my Mom and Dad, go to the Orlando phono show, and bring back some CL purchases I made in NJ that my Dad hauled to FL so I could pick'em up (saves me 10 hrs drive each way). Several more project machines will be in line in the garage.

I'll try to look tonite because if I don't it'll be another week until I get a chance.

Steve


I can't seem to view the images that you've attached to this thread... if you get a chance, would you mind just uploading them directly to the forum (rather than using some outside hosting service/site)... for whatever reason, the filtering software on the computer I tend to use when reading through this site seems to block the images that are posted through outside sharing services, like photobucket and all.

any way, I'd really like to get a look at this machine.

thanks.


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