The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Oliver, thank you very much for you insights. They are greatly appreciated. The idea of a rubber tube to allow the carrier to move while still with the horn attached is something that I will definitely look into. Also, your info on the speed is very interesting and I look forward to testing the speed on my machine once I get it working.

Andreas, thank you. Yes, I'll go look for a suitable base and see what I can make with it. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:56 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
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Location: Leicester, England
Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea when phonographs stopped being used as a genuine way for people to hear music? I know that the disc gramophone pretty much made them obsolete in the 1910s but would there have been some cases when a family kept playing them right through the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s etc...? I was interested since my phonograph had a horn made from a brass instrument from 1920, after these machines were pretty much curiosities. So, would anybody know if such machines were still being played for genuine use? Rather than today where they are seen as collectors items.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:46 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Josh Cattermole 1999 wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anybody have any idea when phonographs stopped being used as a genuine way for people to hear music? I know that the disc gramophone pretty much made them obsolete in the 1910s but would there have been some cases when a family kept playing them right through the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s etc...? I was interested since my phonograph had a horn made from a brass instrument from 1920, after these machines were pretty much curiosities. So, would anybody know if such machines were still being played for genuine use? Rather than today where they are seen as collectors items.


Well, Edison cylinder records were still being manufactured and sold (albeit in small quantities) as late as 1929. The depression which followed prevented many from purchasing new machines. Lots of rural folks used their spring-driven phonographs for a long time. For example, I had a great aunt and uncle who lived on a farm in rural Indiana. In their living room in the early 1960s sat a spring-driven Victrola - - and it wasn't there for decoration. The house had electricity, but no indoor plumbing.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:50 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Thank you very much George. Your info is fascinating and I'm very grateful. Cheers.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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You're very welcome, Josh.

Another, very important aspect to all this, is that antique dealers (and to a certain extent - collectors) continue to saw off instrument horns, substitute oil funnels and vases for horns, and freely substitute parts from one machine to another even today. Much of this activity - such as your horn - is reversible. Unfortunately, not all of it is.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Ah, I understand you George. Fortunately the bell on my horn is still genuine to 1920, even if the rest of the horn is a later addition. Fortunately it still attaches to my phonograph well and fingers crossed it will fulfil its purpose of giving good sound when the machine plays a record.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Well, great news.

I managed to acquire the reproducer and crank needed to get my machine to play. And I am relieved to say that it works perfectly (I was so worried the parts might arrive and not work). But yes, it plays cylinders very well :)

In total, between the machine itself and the parts, I'm in the machine around £280, which I think is a great price considering its now all original and with the box and a decent number of playable records. I had a great bit of luck today at a car-boot sale where a seller had a box of records for cheap. That really sweetened the whole experience for me.

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement guys :) At some point I'll get some pictures up.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:12 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
Posts: 172
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
Congratulations, Josh!

Has your machine got an embossed disc, listing the maker's name and a number of cities, on the free end of the mandrel? This 'seal' or 'tag' was missing from my example and I bought one separately, but I cannot be sure that it was the correct pattern for a machine of this date. If the seal is still present on yours it is presumably original.

What about the playing speed? If your Q has the same limitation as mine (i.e. that it cannot play much above 130 r.p.m.), then any black-wax cylinder will probably sound very much too slow.

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:10 am 
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Victor V
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Menophanes wrote:

What about the playing speed? If your Q has the same limitation as mine (i.e. that it cannot play much above 130 r.p.m.), then any black-wax cylinder will probably sound very much too slow.

Oliver Mundy.


Unless I'm very much mistaken, you can adjust the position of the governor flange, so that it will not be limited to such low speeds. Otherwise, a whole generation of Qs would have to have been discarded after the introduction of black wax cylinders.

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Thanks guys.

Oliver. My tag is, unfortunately, missing. I was also looking to buy one to put on my machine but also had the same concerns with accidentally putting on a tag that was wrong for the model. This warrants some more research to source a Type-Correct tag.
As to the playing speed. It seems alright. Initially it was playing super fast, but I twisted that screw which puts pressure on the mechanism to slow down the revolutions. This seems to have worked and the records play well: not to fast, not too slow. Though in all honesty I'm just pleased that it plays music at all. The fact that it's 117 years old baffles me, let alone having it actually running and playing music with decent quality.

I had another question regarding the date of my machine, specifically concerning the various decals and whether a more specific period could be pinned down for my machine. I thought (and was supported in my conclusion by the experts here) that it was from 1901. The lid decal, I am told, was introduced in 1901. But my lid lacks the prize decal which mentions the 1900 Paris Exposition. I read up that the exposition ended in November 1900. I am very curious if anybody knows how long it took between the end of the Exposition (and the presentation of the prize to the Columbia Company) and the addition of the decal to the newly produced phonographs. Logically it seems odd to have a massive lapse of time between getting the prize and showing it off on the prize decals of the new machines. Since Columbia was in tough competitive business with Edison at this time it would seem logical to show off the decal as soon as possible. Could it be a possibility then that my machine was infact manufactured in 1900, before the prize was awarded? For the record, from what the seller told me and from what I can see on my machine I don't think the lid is a replacement, and there is no evidence that there was ever a prize decal on the lid which subsequently wore off. As to the possible latest date for production: my phonograph lacks the patent date of August 13 1901, so I presume it was made before that date. The last patent date on my machine is March 30 1897. Also, to help, the serial number of my machine is 635831.

Apologies for rambling on, but I hope it helps out. And I very much appreciate any help that is thrown my way. I'm super excited to be able to pin down specific details regarding my machine. Thanks so much.


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