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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Josh,

I've noticed a "lag" between the 1900 Paris exposition and the appearance of the award decal on Graphophones. I can't explain it, but since this was the first award decal used by Columbia on its machines, it's possible that no one thought of it until well after the prize was given. That's only a guess. The 1904 and 1906 award decals seemed to appear much sooner after the events.

If your lid is original to the machine, you're safe with the 1901 date, which is based on empirical data. One of the responders to this thread has the same lid but with the award decal - however, his machine was manufactured some 15,000 units later than yours. That didn't take long with Q production!

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Thanks George. :) That's very much appreciated. That's a fair point about the decal. I guess a few months or so down the line one of Columbia's employees thought it would be a great marketing idea to brag about the 1900 Exposition prize on the Q lids. Makes perfect sense. It's great to know that 1901 is a safe year to put for my machine. Nice to say, for example, that a certain event took place the same year as this machine was made. E.g. it being the year Victoria died, or that William McKinley was assassinated in this year. It's amazing to think that this machine was brand new when such events were going on. To me, that is such amazing history., and I'm very proud to have been able to bring it back to life and make it run almost as good as when it was first made 117 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Also, here's a couple pictures of the parts I bought. The crank is an original plain crank, historically accurate to the early type Q. And the reproducer is a later reproducer (unlike the original angled reproducer which would originally have been used on my machine, which George kindly pointed out on an earlier comment). Interestingly, my reproducer has the patent dates on it, which the last being October 8 1901. The seller says that this is a rare version since it has the patent dates. I don't know how true this is but it is a nice addition and it plays records fine. Perhaps someday I'll find an early type angled reproducer but I'm not complaining. I'm happy with my machine playing with this reproducer.


Attachments:
Crank 2.jpg
Crank 2.jpg [ 40.05 KiB | Viewed 217 times ]
Reproducer 2.jpg
Reproducer 2.jpg [ 27.9 KiB | Viewed 217 times ]
Reproducer 4.jpg
Reproducer 4.jpg [ 32.28 KiB | Viewed 217 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:46 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
Posts: 172
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
Reverting to the question of playing speeds: –

From what Josh has said, it would seem that there is something wrong in the way the regulator and governor of my Q are set up, but I cannot for the life of me make out what that something is. Possibly the accompanying image will enable somebody to spot what I am missing.

Attachment:
columbia_q_speed_control.jpg
columbia_q_speed_control.jpg [ 141.14 KiB | Viewed 175 times ]


A is the combined brake and regulator-lever, which is pivoted in a stud (B) mounted on the inner plate of the motor cage (H). C is the start/stop lever; D is the inner end of the speed-regulator thumbscrew. E is the leather pad of the brake which bears against the sliding disc (F) of the governor. G is the fixed end of the governor-spring assembly, locked to the governor shaft by a screw (not shown). I is a gear-wheel mounted on the plate H.

With C in the 'off' position as shown, the bottom end of A is at the left-hand extremity of its travel and F is clamped firmly between E on its right and I on its left. (The presence of I means that the governor as a whole cannot be moved to the left, which would have been the obvious course.) When C is pushed down, the top of A moves to its left until it comes up against D, while at the same time the bottom of A moves to the right, releasing F and allowing the governor to spin until F, pulled by the centrifugal action of the governor weights, comes up against E again and the governor cannot accelerate any further.

At present the maximum speed available is about 133 r.p.m., and at this speed the thumbscrew D is practically flush with the plate H and cannot be withdrawn any further. (The position shown, with about three turns of the thumbscrew thread visible, corresponds to 120 r.p.m.) Clearly, what is needed is a way of increasing the distance between the lever A and the thumbscrew D so that the disc F can travel further before meeting the stop-pad E. However, I cannot see any means of doing this, other than filing back the top left-hand corner of lever A so that it is further from D. This would be easy, but I am very reluctant to do so, since it would mean interfering irretrievably with the original configuration of what is now an almost entirely unspoiled machine.

Is there anything else I could do?

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:20 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 5566
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Oliver,

Firstly, congratulations on one of the most clear and easily-understood explanations of a problem I've read online. (You should see some of the questions that the APS receives!) Your picture and labeling make the problem easy to understand - and more likely to receive an intelligent answer.

Until that intelligent answer arrives, I'll take a swing at it...

I had a Q that had the same problem. Actually the brake lever (A in your picture) was making contact with the sliding disc(F). That brake lever is made of relatively pliable metal. You can remove the brake lever, put it in a vise, and carefully bend the lower part just a hair toward the right. This will allow a bit more space between the sliding disc and the leather pad. This won't be more than a 16" - - possibly less.

You can also leave the lever in place, holding a wooden block against the motor plate (H) allowed the use of a tool (such as a wide-bladed screwdriver) as a lever to carefully bend the brake lever slightly toward the right. It takes only a light pressure, and you only want a tiny bit of bend toward the right.

I think you'll be surprised how easy this is - with no noticeable change to the appearance of the brake lever. I imagine that many Qs had their brake levers ever-so-slightly bent over the years, causing them to run a bit too slowly.

Good luck!

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:54 am 
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Victor I
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:52 am
Posts: 172
Location: Redruth, Cornwall, U.K.
Thank you, George!

A subsidiary problem which I have encountered, and which unfortunately stands in the way of your first suggestion, is that I cannot remove the pin on which the lever A is pivoted. It looks as if it should simply push out, but will it? Nohow – indeed, contrariwise*. Possibly there is a spot of rust on it, although the machine as a whole is remarkably free from this. However, your second mode (modifying the lever A in situ) is still possible, and I shall try it over the week-end.

*I came up against this because I had fabricated a substitute for the lever A, with a slightly greater angle between the two arms and with a step filed into the top left-hand corner where it would have met the thumbscrew. This should have been a perfect answer, as well as being non-invasive, since the original could be reinstated at any time; but as I have described, I fell at the last fence. Since then my new part, laboriously made over several hours with no tools other than a miniature hacksaw and a watchmaker's file, has fallen on the floor and vanished, as things do in the crazy curiosity-shop which I inhabit.

Oliver Mundy.


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 Post subject: Re: Columbia Model Q. Looking for some information.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:21 am 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Leicester, England
Really interesting subject guys. And I must commend your explanation and diagram Menophanes. It is most impressive and easy to understand what's going on. I hope you manage to find a solution to your problem. I agree with you in that I wouldn't want to mess with a 110 year old machine and forever change its originality. I am simply content to keep my machine as it is and get the speed as best I can. The mere fact that my machine plays anything at all is what matters to me that most. I have tried to adjust the speed adjustor while playing a record so that it ''sounds'' right when it is twisted a certain way. But that is the best I can do.


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