The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi All,
Just thought it might be time for all you you to have a look at what the other side of The Victrola-Monkey (Wayne)/Need4art(Abe) combo has been working on. I am posting a series of pictures that will show the part files and some actual produced items in a number of different materials. There have been gears made in carbon fibre material and Wayne has put them on his machine and they work fine. They are the dark gray gears. The ones in white are ABS. The bit of roughness that you see when you enlarge the pictures comes from the fact that they are using end of the roll material mixed together as they produced these parts at no cost. Wayne has a set that he is using and they are really pretty smooth. The rub is that all parts are laser measured and because of pot metal changes parts need to be made and than adjusted to bring them into spec. Time and effort comes down to cost. A complete set will be made and sent to Wayne for testing on a couple of his many machines. The good news is that many changes are entries into a computer and a file change but parts still have to be produced and checked.

As Wayne has stated the metal machine is in place and they are working on it currently. In the meantime parts can be made in ABS and checked. We will also attempt to create parts that have been sectioned, in the file format and then made into a pattern board for the foundry that he has worked with. The reason for that is that those parts can be produced less expensively in that process than 3D if they will work with us and if the 3D company will do that for us realizing that some part of their potential business will be going away. Some parts should be made in metal, all those above the motor plate and the unit that goes around the tone arm as well as the switching lever. But there are other materials that can add weight and are very strong that are not metal.

When the dust clears (if we all live long enough) I believe we will be able to offer several materials with different price points. Both Wayne and I are trying to produce 1st class parts and a good price.

Enjoy the pics
Abe

Very impressive!! There are several of us eager to get a set of these parts. Keep up the great work.

Nice Abe! Keep doing your magic!

Mark

I got back 3 each of the Record Pads, Magazine Stand Bases, and the Collar Arms from the machinist today. He aluminum welded in 12 holes that the foundry wrongly placed on those parts. Those parts were part of the prototypes v1.0 and v2.0 that the foundry ended up giving me. I just finished grinding the weld spots smooth. I have created pattern sheets to properly locate and drill the holes, as well as to shape the parts to better match and to operate as the originals. I’m very excited that I will be able to make 3 complete sets to finish up the restoration of 3 more VE 10-50s. I will be selling and posting these machines during the next 2 weeks. Shown below are examples of the welded holes in the front row of parts and the ground down smooth ones in the second row.

I’m still waiting to receive the first 3D prototypes from Abe to test for form, fit, and functionality. As well as to take over to the foundry to discuss with them the possibility of making a pattern board from them to then create the aluminum sand castings. Both Abe and his 3D contact have been very busy and traveling. Will let you know of any progress soon.

Victrola-Monkey wrote:I got back 3 each of the Record Pads, Magazine Stand Bases, and the Collar Arms from the machinist today. He aluminum welded in 12 holes that the foundry wrongly placed on those parts. Those parts were part of the prototypes v1.0 and v2.0 that the foundry ended up giving me. I just finished grinding the weld spots smooth. I have created pattern sheets to properly locate and drill the holes, as well as to shape the parts to better match and to operate as the originals. I’m very excited that I will be able to make 3 complete sets to finish up the restoration of 3 more VE 10-50s. I will be selling and posting these machines during the next 2 weeks. Shown below are examples of the welded holes in the front row of parts and the ground down smooth ones in the second row.

I’m still waiting to receive the first 3D prototypes from Abe to test for form, fit, and functionality. As well as to take over to the foundry to discuss with them the possibility of making a pattern board from them to then create the aluminum sand castings. Both Abe and his 3D contact have been very busy and traveling. Will let you know of any progress soon.

You've inspired me. I am currently looking for my original pot metal parts and the sand cast aluminum parts I had made from them. The castings were very smooth and; as I told you before just needed drilled, tapped and possibly machined. I to have the record holder stand machined and painted and with a metal dowel through it as original. I have them all stored in one box either in my basement or attic; but will contact you with photos when I find them to see if you could help out with my getting mine in shape for my early 10-50 as you said before. I do have my finished record magazine holder with a metal dowel through it as original that I ground, drilled and painted a long time ago. That is actually screwed down in place on my machine. never got the rest near that. Good luck on getting 2 more 10-50's restored and I know it won't be long before those 3D parts are in your hands.

Ok, I now have 3 complete sets that have passed my “form, fit, and function” tests. Please look in the Yankee Trader section next week for the machines in which these will be installed.

Note the Early/Mid and the Late style Magazine Stand bases which demonstrate the two types of attaching hardware. The Early/Mid style uses the 3/16” brass dowel and the Late style uses a shoulder screw and nut. Since no shoulder screws are available with the proper length threaded part, I had to construct one using a black oxide screw with a piece of 3/16” brass tube slid over it. The shoulder screw slides in through to the backside of the support then screws into it and then is double locked in place with a small black oxide nut.

Note also that these are the first Magazine Stand Base casts that correct a problem I discovered with the Charlie Weatherbee castings (at least all the ones I’ve come across and have heard a rumor there we’re problems being experienced). When using 12” records, the record would hang too low due to the gold scissors part being at a low angle. The fix is to raise the attaching pivot point higher to match the original pot-metal Magazine Stand Base. My prototype castings were originally drilled to match Charlie’s but have since been aluminum welded in, machined, and drilled at the proper height (and in the Late style case, tapped).

Victrola-Monkey wrote:Ok, I now have 3 complete sets that have passed my “form, fit, and function” tests. Please look in the Yankee Trader section next week for the machines in which these will be installed.

Note the Early/Mid and the Late style Magazine Stand bases which demonstrate the two types of attaching hardware. The Early/Mid style uses the 3/16” brass dowel and the Late style uses a shoulder screw and nut. Since no shoulder screws are available with the proper length threaded part, I had to construct one using a black oxide screw with a piece of 3/16” brass tube slid over it. The shoulder screw slides in through to the backside of the support then screws into it and then is double locked in place with a small black oxide nut.

Note also that these are the first Magazine Stand Base casts that correct a problem I discovered with the Charlie Weatherbee castings (at least all the ones I’ve come across and have heard a rumor there we’re problems being experienced). When using 12” records, the record would hang too low due to the gold scissors part being at a low angle. The fix is to raise the attaching pivot point higher to match the original pot-metal Magazine Stand Base. My prototype castings were originally drilled to match Charlie’s but have since been aluminum welded in, machined, and drilled at the proper height (and in the Late style case, tapped).

BEAUTIFUL!!!! I am absolutely drooling and equally excited about getting my 10-50 back together!

I agree with Marco. I am very excited to get a set for my 10-50. I really appreciate Wayne's efforts on this project.
Ken Brekke

Thanks guys, for your continued kind words.

I forgot to include a picture of a great jig the foundry made and let me have, used for accurate drilling of the long shaft holes in the Record Size Selector- Gear Assembly Base. To use, basically I screw on an original Gear Assembly Base on the jig to line things up with the drill bit, then tighten the drill press vise. Then I replace the original with the undrilled aluminum one and drill. Then slightly loosen the vise, spin the center of the jig to line up the second location, tighten the vise, and drill.

MAGAZINE STAND BASE: After having the horizontal holes aluminum welded in on the Magazine Stand Base and redrilling them to be exactly the same location as the original pot-metal ones, I found that I needed to re-weld them in again, and to re-drill them exactly where they were, which is where Charlie Weatherbee had designed them to be. My apologies for my questioning the design of my friend and to our replacement part maker predecessor. Of the 4 original and in decent shape pot-metal Magazine Stand Bases I have, the center of the horizontal hole is 5/16" down from the top of this part. Charlie's is 7/16" down from the top (note that the overall height of the parts are the same). Strange that none of the original pot-metal ones work at all due to it making the Magazine Stand's gold scissor part be too upright and not allowing the Record Ring to successfully grab a 12" record off of it. Charlie's lower position allows the stand to be at a greater slant for successful record grabbing.

RECORD PAD: Though I previously found that the greater slant mentioned above caused a problem with the 12" records hanging too low and rubbing the Record Pad, I have since found the resolution to that issue to be made in the Record Pad itself. I slightly had to lower the shaft holes of the Record Pad which in turn lowered the Record Pad just enough for no rubbing and successful 12" record grabbing of the Record Ring.

RECORD SPEED CONTROL: I thought I would mention here about the strangeness I noticed with all VE 10-50s when the speed control knob is screwed in just a little too much and making the record spin just a little too fast. When this is the case, the governor spins so fast that its weights centrifugally extend to the point of tapping the metal disk of the electrical motor. Does this occur on other machines? Simply slowing down the motor resolves that problem, then your personal speed measuring method can be utilized adjust for 78 rpm.

RECORD SIZE SELECTOR LEVER KNOB ADJUSTMENT: When the Record Size Selector Gear Assembly and its Lever Knob are installed the Lever Knob does not line up with the record size indications on the front panel's control plate. I thought here might be a good place to describe the procedure to make it line up. Mount the gear assembly loosely so it does not make contact with the partial gear attached to the vertical shaft protruding from the bottom of the changer. Manually put the changer in the 10" position by pushing the lever arm all the way towards the front that is attached to that vertical shaft on the topside of the changer. Then have someone hold the lever knob on the 10" position indicated on the changer's front panel's control plate. Then tighten the two mounting screws on the gear assembly to mesh its connecting gear with that partial gear on the changer's vertical shaft.