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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:56 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 374
Location: Florida
The end of last month I paid Need4art for a complete set of the first prototypes of 3D parts in plastic (enhanced strength ABS) and they should be done and sent to me very soon for Form Fit & Function testing. They are not so inexpensive, but I expect the detail to be a perfect match to the originals. Looking very much forward to receiving them and to take them over to the foundry regarding discussions of making a casting pattern from ones similiar but printed in two halves.

Meanwhile, I'm selling off some of my decent looking original pot metal Magazine Stand Bases and Tonearm Collar Arms on eBay. I've provided a link there from the following TMF link:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=37496


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:45 pm 
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Victor II
A man is not a man who does not make the world a better place
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Arizona
Hi All,
As in all things there is a learning curve. As Wayne indicated he had ordered a complete set of parts for the 10-50 in ABS. The gear component is set and gears can be made in any material that the 3D company has available And while Wayne has several sets to test components on I did a couple of spot tests myself, and well.... some parts just do not fit. Pot metal expands and contracts and measurements were taken from the parts I had available. In addition, the process of making parts on a 3D machine does have a shrinkage factor, no mater which material they use. The set that I have sent to Wayne will become our pattern and once he either trims what needs to be trimmed, or drills, or shaves to fit-they will become our Go-No-Go pattern.

Pictures tell the story and there is a lot of potential here. I have included a picture of their basic set up for metal-which they just received to the cost of $265,000 and they are currently set up to run stainless steel as they have a prepaid order for 600 pieces from a client. Carlton Smith from the forum ordered a set of gears as well in reinforced ABS. Both sets of parts are on the way.

There are non metal composites that are extremely strong that could be used instead of metal, as well as aluminum that they will be doing shortly, but for now they are following the customers with the strongest needs (ie money).

Lets see how this goes with the ABS parts with input from Wayne and Carlton. Stay tuned.

Abe


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Victor I
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:23 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Navarre, Ohio
[quote="need4art"]Hi All,
As in all things there is a learning curve. As Wayne indicated he had ordered a complete set of parts for the 10-50 in ABS. The gear component is set and gears can be made in any material that the 3D company has available And while Wayne has several sets to test components on I did a couple of spot tests myself, and well.... some parts just do not fit. Pot metal expands and contracts and measurements were taken from the parts I had available. In addition, the process of making parts on a 3D machine does have a shrinkage factor, no mater which material they use. The set that I have sent to Wayne will become our pattern and once he either trims what needs to be trimmed, or drills, or shaves to fit-they will become our Go-No-Go pattern.

Pictures tell the story and there is a lot of potential here. I have included a picture of their basic set up for metal-which they just received to the cost of $265,000 and they are currently set up to run stainless steel as they have a prepaid order for 600 pieces from a client. Carlton Smith from the forum ordered a set of gears as well in reinforced ABS. Both sets of parts are on the way.

There are non metal composites that are extremely strong that could be used instead of metal, as well as aluminum that they will be doing shortly, but for now they are following the customers with the strongest needs (ie money).

Lets see how this goes with the ABS parts with input from Wayne and Carlton. Stay tuned.

Abe

What would a set of gears cost; as my aluminum ones don't mesh properly and will require long hours of filing to fit properly.


Last edited by marco on Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 374
Location: Florida
I look forward to testing out Abe’s prototype parts once I get back home. They should be there when I get back from my trip.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:13 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 374
Location: Florida
Back home now and I picked up Abe’s prototype ABS replacement set from the post office this morning. I will work on them and test them out later this week.

I also picked up 21 cast aluminum sets from the foundry this morning, as well as the casting pattern.

Originally I had wondered if they would let me keep the pattern, but for $2968 to have it made, you better believe me they let me keep it. Originally they were going to do the grinding, drilling, and tapping for a mere $10 a set but after a few rounds of having them redo their work, they gave up, and gave me my money back. What was very nice of them to do, and smart to do, was to let me keep the 4 sets of prototypes. That gave me the opportunity to do the machining work myself (after paying a machine shop to aluminum weld in the holes at $12.50 per hole, so I could start all over). What a pain! It took me over a week PER SET to get those prototypes to function right for both the 10” and 12” record cycles.

Still having the need for 12 more sets for additional phonographs I have, I made the incredible decision to go ahead and pay the foundry for the pattern and pay the additional to have them cast 21 sets. Now that I have them, I am faced with an unrealistic amount of work. So to address this dilemma, I am going to do the machine work on one set and see what a machine shop would charge to use their CNC equipment to duplicate it times 20. I will let you know how it goes.

To make things that much tougher on me, half the employees at the foundry had the flu, and now I feel like I’ve got it since I went there this morning. Think I’ll take some zinc before I do any aluminum.


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Last edited by Victrola-Monkey on Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
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That all sounds like a full-time job! Don't get sick, and I wish you the best ahead!
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1085
Don't take zinc! It cracks and distorts (over a span of decades)!


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:22 pm 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:38 pm
Posts: 1087
Location: Plover, WI
I am not alone applauding your efforts on this project. I am eagerly waiting to be able to buy a set for my 10-50.


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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 374
Location: Florida
3D ABS Replacement Parts Form-Fit-Function Evaluation - Part One

Abe,

I will do Function testing tomorrow, today I checked Form and Fit, as well as drilled holes bigger, tapped holes that needed to be tapped, and sanded to right size to deal with the 3D exact capture of a swelled part.

The following details what I did to each part, including tap sizes used for hardware thread counts readily available.

RECORD PAD:

1. Increase the shaft holes in the two tabs to 5/32” (from 7/16”).

2. Sanded outside width of record pad in tab areas to 2.875” (from 2.923”).

3. Noticed that the two tabs are not solid ABS when sanding pad width narrower to fit between the Record Lifting Ring shaft area. Exposed interior of tabs appear to have a wafer structure. I would expect these to be solid to make more rigid.

4. Though it fits around the two shaft post, the inside space between the two tabs, to reduce play, should be reduced to 2.425” (from 2.550”).

5. I will find out tomorrow for sure, but it appears the ABS product for this part may not be heavy enough to counter the action of the spring attached to the two short gold levers attached to the Record Lifting Ring.

COLLAR ARM:

1. Use ¼”-20 x ¾” Socket Cap Screw in the clamping tabs.

2. The left side clamping tab hole increase size to ¼” (as referenced from holding Collar Arm’s big tonearm hole towards you and arm part away and dropping downward). The left side is the head side of the socket cap screw.

3. Tap with ¼”-20 bit the right side clamping tab hole. Do so from left side.

4. Decrease the lip thickness to .12” around the bottom of the big tonearm hole (from .164”).

5. Increase big tonearm hole to 1.940 (from 1.892”). This is necessary for metal parts but with the flexibility of ABS, it’s not an issue.

¼” SHAFT GEAR:

1. Increase shaft bore size to fit ¼” shaft.

2. Increase pin hole size to 3/32”.

THREE ⅜” SHAFT GEARS:

1. Increase shaft bore size to fit ⅜” shaft.

2. Increase pin hole size to 3/32”.

GEAR ASSEMBLY BASE:

1. Tight with gears installed on shafts. I would remove .01” from the inside side of the shaft posts.

2. Increase the two mounting holes to ¼”.

RECORD SIZE SELECTOR LEVER:

1. Use #10-32 x ¼” Full Dog Set Screw.

2. Tap set screw hole with #10-32 bit. Note that when I attempted to use the set screw itself as a tap, it cracked the ABS. Though it was wrong to initially not use a tap bit, I feel this lever should be made of the Carbon Fiber material instead, if not in metal.

MAGAZINE STAND BASE:

1. For the Early/Mid models, increase both pivot holes in tabs to 3/16”.

2. For Late models, increase just the front tab pivot hole to 3/16” and tap the back hole with a #8-32 bit from the front. Note the reference is made where the both tabs are on the right side when the magazine stand base is mounted and viewed from the front of the machine.

3. This is the second item I would be concerned if used made from the ABS product and would highly recommend that carbon fiber, if not metal be used due to the tremendous stressed placed upon that little catch part in between the two slots in the bottom area of this part.

-Wayne


Last edited by Victrola-Monkey on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Victor Changer Type 1 Pot Metal Replacement Parts & Gear
PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:19 pm 
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Victor II
A man is not a man who does not make the world a better place
Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 366
Location: Arizona
Hi Wayne,
All of this is great, and I follow your thoughts on the parts that should be metal, and the hope is to get these to spec so that we can make metal parts that fit per spec. I really never thought that the handle or selector gear should be made out of ABS. You have months of work in front of you, and looking at all of them is a bit overwhelming, but I know that you will continue to move forward. Once you are done I will take your notes to them and see if they can make this happen. They could do it in stainless but I think that I would pass out over the price. I will see how they are coming with aluminum.

Hope your trip was good.

Abe


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