Questions: Columbia AA and Std Model AU

[jboger]

Columbia Model AA and Standard Model AU have completely interchangeable parts. What confuses me is the pinstriping. I have studied pictures of both models on the Internet as best I could (pictures not always revealing) and have seen Model AUs with no pin striping on the base and no Standard Model decal. This does not make sense to me. If I contracted Columbia to supply my company with machines, then I would want my logo to appear on every one of them along with the larger spindle. Is it safe to safe that if a machine has a large spindle but no Std Model logo that the base has been swapped sometime in the past? Conversely, If I have a Columbia AA with the Std Model logo on the base, it too has had the base plate swapped out?

[rgordon939]

Just to get the identifications correct the Columbia is a Model AU and the Standard is a Model AA Open Works. Here is a picture of my Standard Model AA.

Rich Gordon

[jboger]

First, a disclaimer: I have no desire to cast doubt on the originality of anyone's machine.

Currently. there is a nice looking Std Model AU for sale on this website. It has the large spindle, and on the base appears the Standard Model Co logo/decal with the 198-200 Monroe St, Chicago address, same as on the 7-inch records. This seems entirely self-consistent to me and correct. However, I have seen that decal on an AA machine, that is, on a machine with the usual spindle size. And I have seen large-spindle machines (AUs) with no decal on the base. This seems inconsistent to me.

Lack of quality control? Or something else?

[Phonofreak]

I have seen these both ways. Then again, Columbia is notorious of "mix and match", and other inconsistencies.
Harvey Kravitz

[rgordon939]

jboger, you are still calling these machines by the wrong names. The Correct names are the Columbia AU and the Standard AA. The machine listed for sale in the Yankee Trader section is a Standard AA mistakenly identified as an AU. I attached a section taken from “The Complete Talking Machine” explaining the only difference. Over the years many machines have had Parts swapped out in order to play records with a normal sized hole or the larger sized hole of the Standard records. That said you will see both Columbia AU’s and Standard AA’s with both small and large spindles.

Rich Gordon

[jboger]

Rich: Thanks for the correction. That the parts have been swapped out over the past 100 years or so I fully understand. But the spindle size is not the only difference.

[rgordon939]

What else are you referring to.

Rich Gordon

[Lucius1958]

For your clarification, THIS is a Columbia AA...

Bill

[fmblizz]

because of the lack of Standard records available,, I've seen many AA machines with cut-down spindles so that the owners could play either spindle size records with the addition of a small bushing to bring the machine back to it's intended record purpose..

blizz

[jboger]

I understand fully what everyone has written. Mind you, my first statement in the original post was that I recognize that the parts were interchangeable. Only Harvey seems to understand my original question by stating that Columbia was notorious for mixing and matching parts perhaps randomly. So my question, to hit the nail on the head, is, How did these Std Model AAs and Columbia AU's (got that right?) leave the factory, not what has happened to them over the years.

This is the sort of question many of us have asked about our machines. For example, many people want a round-hole Exhibition on their early Victor machines. Others want either a blue or red horn for their Standard Model As. And they only want a green horn for their Arentinos. Nothing else will do. Ditto for any number of other parts. We want to know how original our machines are. I, for example, do not want a Standard Model A with the spindle modified to accomodate the usual size 78s. And I really don't want records that have had their center holes enlarged to fit the Model A.

So how do the AA and AU differ other than spindle size? The Standard Talking Machine Co decal.

Did all Std Model AAs leave the factory with that decal? If I contracted Columbia to make machines for my records, then I would want my logo on that machine. There are four possible combinations: (1) decal with large spindle; (2) decal with small spindle; (3) no decal with large spindle; and (4) no decal with small spindle. As collectors, we live in a world of probabilities. Who knows what has happened to these machines over the past 100 years. Maybe all Std AA's started with the Standard Talking Machine Co. decal and parts got swapped out over the years. If so, then a machine with a decal and small spindle has probably been modified.

Or maybe Columbia mixed and matched parts, and the Std Talking Machine Co didn't really care as long as their machines had the large spindle for their records. We may never know the answer to this. I can live with that. But one thing seems clear: a machine with both a decal and a large spindle has a greater probability of having left the factory that way than some of the other combinations noted above. Maybe that's the answer I'm looking for, although I was hoping one of the Wise Guys could give me a definitive answer.

By the way, I have nothing to do with the Std Model AA currently for sale. I do not know the seller and I apologize if he dislikes my bringing it up. However, I have seen people put items up for sale only to invite a multitude of comments posted by people who want to discuss the machine. I don't tell anyone on this Forum what he or she should do, but that is a practice that I personally don't like.

Thanks for reading.