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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 7:42 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 1933
Location: Harrison Township, MI
AmberolaAndy wrote:
OrthoFan wrote:
Silvertone wrote:
The 8-4 uses the same tone arm as the 8-30 and 9-15.


I'm wondering if this would work...
Attachment:
Capture.JPG

FROM: https://www.phonographs.org/store/r-328 ... -2497.html

OrthoFan

I dunno... will it have that plate thingy with ball bearings in it? Or will I have supply my own?


It will have the ball bearings already in it. See if it also has the stop plate with it that prevents the arm from swinging too far to the right or left. That's not essential for its use, but nice if it's there.


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:28 pm 
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Victor O
I hate pot metal
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm
Posts: 72
OrthoFan wrote:
Silvertone wrote:
The 8-4 uses the same tone arm as the 8-30 and 9-15.


I'm wondering if this would work...
Attachment:
Capture.JPG

FROM: https://www.phonographs.org/store/r-328 ... -2497.html

OrthoFan

I notice the arm does not have the overhanging bracket like the one in the 8-4 would have. Does it affect anything? Is this an earlier version of the orthophonic tonearm? Why do some arms have overhanging brackets while others do not?


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:41 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:48 am
Posts: 408
Location: New Hampshire
The very early Credenza tone arms were made from two pieces connected together and use a base that did not require the overhang made of pot metal. It will work but will not look as original.


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Victor O
I hate pot metal
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm
Posts: 72
Skihawx wrote:
The very early Credenza tone arms were made from two pieces connected together and use a base that did not require the overhang made of pot metal. It will work but will not look as original.

I guess it will work a helluva lot better than a tonearm from a VV-80 or whatever tonearm is on there currently! Lol :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:32 am 
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Victor V
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Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:22 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Finger Lakes Territory, RONYC
I don't know if this helps, but these are images of the tonearm on my early Credenza X sn. 3173.

Best,
Fran


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Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.
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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:48 am 
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Victor IV
Edison, Columbia, Victor, Pathé...and oddball makes
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2012 1:06 pm
Posts: 1031
For any tonearm on any machine, the important measurement is the one from pivot axis to spindle center. With a needle in the reproducer chuck, the tip of the needle should extend to the center of the turntable spindle. Ideally, the plane of the diaphragm should be tangential to the record grooves throughout the arc of travel, but some compromise on this is normal.

The only other variations are different ranges of lateral travel, which may vary based on an additional part inside the base, and the color/finish of the metal.

Replacing the cheap potmetal support bracket with the earlier cantilevered arm (the type shown in Fran’s posting) may be incorrect, but is certainly more reliable and usable for those who use their machines. If you have a deteriorating back bracket and the cantilevered arm with correct geometry is available, why not switch them out so you can play music? It’s completely reversible, obviously.


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:33 pm 
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Victor O
I hate pot metal
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm
Posts: 72
PeterF wrote:
For any tonearm on any machine, the important measurement is the one from pivot axis to spindle center. With a needle in the reproducer chuck, the tip of the needle should extend to the center of the turntable spindle. Ideally, the plane of the diaphragm should be tangential to the record grooves throughout the arc of travel, but some compromise on this is normal.

The only other variations are different ranges of lateral travel, which may vary based on an additional part inside the base, and the color/finish of the metal.

Replacing the cheap potmetal support bracket with the earlier cantilevered arm (the type shown in Fran’s posting) may be incorrect, but is certainly more reliable and usable for those who use their machines. If you have a deteriorating back bracket and the cantilevered arm with correct geometry is available, why not switch them out so you can play music? It’s completely reversible, obviously.

Ok, i'll take your word for it. It doesn't have to be 100% original. I just wanted to know what I was getting myself into beforehand so I can do this correctly. And all your answers were very helpful. I guess it dosen't hurt to ask once in a while. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:00 pm 
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Victor Jr
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:44 pm
Posts: 7
Hi,

I finally had the courage to open my garage and go hunting for parts and pieces. I also had a chance to dig out the remaining victor 8-4 that I have in my collection. The back bracket on my machine I rebuilt a number a years ago when the white metal bracket was being reproduced by the Smiths. I am not sure if anyone currently reproduces the brackets. Im sure you could check with Ron Sitko, Wyatt’s musical Americana, or Great Lakes Antique phonograph. I believe the individuals who purchased business from the Smiths may have reproduced them and sold them on eBay. They have a website JAS Antiques. The tone arm I found will need significant cleaning and also the white metal bracket is broken. It does appear to be the correct tone arm for the machine. I also have pictured a spare bracket that I purchased for the victor 8-4 I recently sold. The original on that machine remained intact so I never rebuilt it. I may be willing to sell it but I’m still debating. Feel free to pm me if you have any questions.


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:38 pm 
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Victor O
I hate pot metal
Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 10:15 pm
Posts: 72
Update 7/3/2018

Welp. I bought a tonearm for cheap and the reproduction back bracket from JAS’s eBay page just to be safe. Now all I have to do is wait. And hopefully by this weekend I’ll be playing records on my 8-4!!


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 Post subject: Re: VV 8-4 tonearm question
PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Victor II
Joined: Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 pm
Posts: 370
Location: SF Bay Area
ha ;) you will enjoy it they are a nice machine


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