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 Post subject: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:41 am 
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Victor I
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:04 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Pittsburgh
Hi everyone, I am looking at purchasing an Orthophonic Granada with the Electrola motor. Is there anything I should look for in terms of safety/ quality with these motors? A 90 year old electric motor gives me slight doubts. Any suggestions or tips would be greatly appreciated. The motor is in running order and will turn the table at the correct speed.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 365
Location: Florida
I believe the Granada X as well as it was later named VE 4-4 X used only the induction disk motors. These motors are very reliable motors as long as they weren’t stored improperly and rust up or had got real dirty.. Other than that, the only real problem I’ve encountered was one having a disk that was bent and I was unable to straighten it. I did however swapped it out with a spare and was good to go. I would remove power and just hand turn the spindle to make sure it freely spins and not rub the coils. There is adjustment to move it up or down between the coils if it is off centered. I’ve recently rebuilt a half dozen of the VE 10-50 motors, which are very close in design (see photo of some them apart below). The wires can be fragile that connect it to the plug and the electric switch/brake and the cloth insulation tends to break with rough handling, but new cloth wiring is readily available. I did have one motor that was missing the crossover wire that connects one coil to the other. Without it, the motor spun but made a hum. Replacing the missing wire resolved that. On the non VE 10-50 type induction disk motors, there is a fuse in the middle of that wire mounted on the motor.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:04 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm
Posts: 606
Location: North Central Iowa
Does anyone know of a motor shop that can re-wind these larger motors? I know the regular induction motor is pretty common, but the larger one's used in the automatic machines are another matter. There used to be a guy near me that could do that kind of work, but he's gone for his reward and the guy that took over his business is not interested in messing with small motors. Nice guy, but he told me he makes way more money re-winding motors for hog confinement operations and doesn't have time to mess with "sewing machine motors". Haha! Earl.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Victor IV
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"Did you ever stop to think that pleasure is a duty?" (Victor sales pamphlet)
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:19 pm
Posts: 1294
You might try this small company-They've done fine work on Electrola Universal and Capehart turntable motors for me.
Try calling them-they actually answer the phone! :D

Biedler's Electric Motor Repair, Inc.
194 Hack Wilson Way
Martinsburg, WV 25401

Phone: 304 263 9995

Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Victor I
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:04 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Pittsburgh
Thanks so much everyone! Great info. Is there anywhere I can find a diagram or directions for lubrication of the motor/ mechanisms?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 365
Location: Florida
EarlH wrote:
Does anyone know of a motor shop that can re-wind these larger motors? I know the regular induction motor is pretty common, but the larger one's used in the automatic machines are another matter. There used to be a guy near me that could do that kind of work, but he's gone for his reward and the guy that took over his business is not interested in messing with small motors. Nice guy, but he told me he makes way more money re-winding motors for hog confinement operations and doesn't have time to mess with "sewing machine motors". Haha! Earl.


The induction motor coils are the same in the changer and non-changer machines. I have taken the 60 Hz coils off of a spare non-changer Electrola and put them on a changer motor (in my VE 10-51) that was previously set up for 25 Hz. Essentially converting it from a Canadian Type 2 motor to an American Type 3 motor. I measured the resistance of the upper and lower coils of numerous 60 Hz motors, changer type and non-changer types, and found that they measure nearly the same. 3-4 ohms in the uppers and 134-138 ohms in the lowers. The 25 Hz measures around 8 ohms in the uppers and 141 ohms in the lowers. As mentioned previously, on another changer motor, I swapped out it’s bent disk with one from a non-changer motor. They are the exact same size. The only size difference between the changer motors and the non-changer is the length of the post that goes through the hole in the record.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:42 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 365
Location: Florida
Edisonh19 wrote:
Thanks so much everyone! Great info. Is there anywhere I can find a diagram or directions for lubrication of the motor/ mechanisms?


Usually a diagram label is found under your motor board detailing the lubrication requirements. The same can be found on page 296 in the Look for the Dog book by Robert Baumbach.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2014 4:25 pm
Posts: 606
Location: North Central Iowa
Victrola-Monkey wrote:
EarlH wrote:
Does anyone know of a motor shop that can re-wind these larger motors? I know the regular induction motor is pretty common, but the larger one's used in the automatic machines are another matter. There used to be a guy near me that could do that kind of work, but he's gone for his reward and the guy that took over his business is not interested in messing with small motors. Nice guy, but he told me he makes way more money re-winding motors for hog confinement operations and doesn't have time to mess with "sewing machine motors". Haha! Earl.


The induction motor coils are the same in the changer and non-changer machines. I have taken the 60 Hz coils off of a spare non-changer Electrola and put them on a changer motor (in my VE 10-51) that was previously set up for 25 Hz. Essentially converting it from a Canadian Type 2 motor to an American Type 3 motor. I measured the resistance of the upper and lower coils of numerous 60 Hz motors, changer type and non-changer types, and found that they measure nearly the same. 3-4 ohms in the uppers and 134-138 ohms in the lowers. The 25 Hz measures around 8 ohms in the uppers and 141 ohms in the lowers. As mentioned previously, on another changer motor, I swapped out it’s bent disk with one from a non-changer motor. They are the exact same size. The only size difference between the changer motors and the non-changer is the length of the post that goes through the hole in the record.


I kind of thought that those coils all looked the same on both styles of motors, but I never measured them with the ohm meter. In the service notes, it just says that the Type 3 motor is "Heavy duty for use on Automatic instruments" But it's not really clear about what is meant by the statement. The motor in my 10-70 is getting hotter than it should and I need to figure out which coil is causing the trouble. I had an electric Credenza years ago that did the same thing, and one day it just stopped. You know how much fun these machines are to take all apart and put back together, so I'm leaving it alone for the time being... It's really a good thing that those motors really hardly ever cause any trouble. Thanks Wayne for all the information. Lots of interesting things to learn on these old machines, that's for sure. Earl.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:50 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
Posts: 881
Location: Melbourne, FL
I suggest re-winding the motor yourself as they are very easy to do. You can buy the same gauge wire on eBay and the web and just take pics of the windings and how many revolutions are on each pole and where they are soldered to...simple stuff...

:0)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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 Post subject: Re: Questions regarding Electrola motors
PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:09 pm 
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Victor II
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Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:58 am
Posts: 365
Location: Florida
Earl,

When you are ready to take out your changer/motor you might first want to make a rig like pictured below to protect and simplify the separation of the motor from the changer and the reattachment. It’s 13.5” tall x 17.5” wide x 13.5” deep. There’s a removable 2”x6” piece that supports the disconnected motor that’s nice to move out of the way when testing out the whole operation.

Then there’s the changer sky scraper version that holds six, but I doubt anyone in there right mind would need to make one of those.

-Wayne


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