I recently bought this HMV 102 from someone in Britain. It is in very good condition. Unfortunately, there is frequent slippage in the spring. I notified the seller and asked about this. He said the motor had been entirely cleaned and lubricated.
As far as the spring, he said he had used 10W30 motor oil. This surprised me. I have replaced and cleaned a few springs and have always used a good quality grease.
Is this a common practice in the UK?
Before I tackled taking the motor apart to clean the spring. I was looking for a video on YouTube on how to dismantle the motor and do the cleaning for a 102. There are all kinds of videos saying what they did but no videos I could find that showed the process in its entirety. Most were videos of owners proudly showing off their phonographs (gramophones).
I always feel reassured if I can find a video to guide me. I guess I will wing it with multiple pictures to guide back the point of the dismantling.
Any comments appreciated.
Dean
10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
- toydk
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- Victor V
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Not a video of the take down, but this site shows some good quality photos of the process --
http://projectrepair.blogspot.com/2011/ ... phone.html
The video of the completed project leaves me a little stumped, however, since, to my ear, it sounds like it's still in need of repair, or adjustment. (The speed seems to waver considerably.)
HTH,
OrthoFan
http://projectrepair.blogspot.com/2011/ ... phone.html
The video of the completed project leaves me a little stumped, however, since, to my ear, it sounds like it's still in need of repair, or adjustment. (The speed seems to waver considerably.)
HTH,
OrthoFan
- AZ*
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Good quality grease is the way to go. I've used Mobil 1 Synthetic for my most recent motor overhauls. Some people opt for the "more authentic" Vaseline/graphite mix. It's a personal preference thing. I haven't done a 102 motor, but I've done plenty of others.
If you can't find a video, be sure to take plenty of your own photos that you can use to guide the reassembly process.
If you can't find a video, be sure to take plenty of your own photos that you can use to guide the reassembly process.
Best regards ... AZ*
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Springs should NEVER BE OILED , the oil "sticks" the coils together and they slide not unwind and then part with a clunk which can break the spring ! springs need grease , graphited grease was used by HMV , this is difficult to find now and Moly grease is a good substitute but most car greases will work OKtoydk wrote:I recently bought this HMV 102 from someone in Britain. It is in very good condition. Unfortunately, there is frequent slippage in the spring. I notified the seller and asked about this. He said the motor had been entirely cleaned and lubricated.
As far as the spring, he said he had used 10W30 motor oil. This surprised me. I have replaced and cleaned a few springs and have always used a good quality grease.
Is this a common practice in the UK?
Before I tackled taking the motor apart to clean the spring. I was looking for a video on YouTube on how to dismantle the motor and do the cleaning for a 102. There are all kinds of videos saying what they did but no videos I could find that showed the process in its entirety. Most were videos of owners proudly showing off their phonographs (gramophones).
I always feel reassured if I can find a video to guide me. I guess I will wing it with multiple pictures to guide back the point of the dismantling.
Any comments appreciated.
Dean
- barnettrp21122
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Yes to grease, whatever type you prefer.
Some have strong odors, however, that in my experience have never faded with time or use.
You'll notice this if you do your own re-greasing, but ask your restorer if you go that route.
Good luck with your project!
Bob
Some have strong odors, however, that in my experience have never faded with time or use.
You'll notice this if you do your own re-greasing, but ask your restorer if you go that route.
Good luck with your project!
Bob
"Comparison is the thief of joy" Theodore Roosevelt
His Master's Voice Automatic 1A Exponential Gramophone Demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi70G1Rzqpo
His Master's Voice Automatic 1A Exponential Gramophone Demonstration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi70G1Rzqpo
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Hi Dean,toydk wrote:
Is this a common practice in the UK?
No - this isn't a common practice in the UK! Most collectors go with the car grease (probably Moly grease is most common). However over here there are loads of people selling gramophones and 78s who don't have a clue about them.
I go with the vaseline/graphite mix, knowing that it may harden in a few years time, but it is the original way to go. Still never had a problem with this mix, whereas I did continue to get 'bumping' once when I used Moly grease alone in a Columbia 211. You can always add a tiny amount of light machine oil to the grease to get the right consistency, but usually there's no need.
Good luck - and enjoy your wonderful 102 - they're great!
Carl.
Money doesn't make the world go around, but a fine Garrard wind-up motor can help!
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Thanks for all your comments. Orthofan, that link showing pictures and providing an explanation was very helpful.
Well, from the pictures I am attaching you can see what the problem was. The seller had NOT cleaned the spring. I think he just squirted a little motor oil in there and called it good. Dismantling the motor went well. The biggest challenge was getting the locking ring off the spring barrel and then back on again after I had cleaned and regreased the spring. I actually snipped off a tiny piece of the ring to get it back on.
I got everything back together and the 102 plays perfectly.
Again, thanks for your advice.
Dean
PS-when I originally got the machine I suspected something was not right so I requested a £50 adjustment. Although he thought the machine worked perfectly for him, he did finally agree to the adjustment.
Well, from the pictures I am attaching you can see what the problem was. The seller had NOT cleaned the spring. I think he just squirted a little motor oil in there and called it good. Dismantling the motor went well. The biggest challenge was getting the locking ring off the spring barrel and then back on again after I had cleaned and regreased the spring. I actually snipped off a tiny piece of the ring to get it back on.
I got everything back together and the 102 plays perfectly.
Again, thanks for your advice.
Dean
PS-when I originally got the machine I suspected something was not right so I requested a £50 adjustment. Although he thought the machine worked perfectly for him, he did finally agree to the adjustment.
- Henry
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
No doubt about it, there is noticeable speed variation, which manifests as pitch variation. Note that there is some eccentricity in the platter (slight back-and-forth lateral movement of the sound box), and this can also cause pitch variation. However, the marked variation I hear is probably due to turntable speed irregularity.OrthoFan wrote:Not a video of the take down, but this site shows some good quality photos of the process --
http://projectrepair.blogspot.com/2011/ ... phone.html
The video of the completed project leaves me a little stumped, however, since, to my ear, it sounds like it's still in need of repair, or adjustment. (The speed seems to waver considerably.)
HTH,
OrthoFan
.
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
Hi Henry:Henry wrote:OrthoFan wrote:...No doubt about it, there is noticeable speed variation, which manifests as pitch variation. Note that there is some eccentricity in the platter (slight back-and-forth lateral movement of the sound box), and this can also cause pitch variation. However, the marked variation I hear is probably due to turntable speed irregularity.
Thanks for confirming. Seems a shame after the owner went through all that trouble to rebuild it; documenting his repair process, posting photos, etc.. Listening to it again, it seems that the sound box, itself, could use some TLC, in addition to whatever motor adjustments might be needed. I suspect that the governor may not have been mounted correctly and was moving slightly back and forth-horizontally-on its pivots. (An easy fix.)
OrthoFan
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Re: 10W30 motor oil for a HMV102 spring?
And next time you look, you'll probably find that the wire has come off, together with the lid, and there is grease everywhere!toydk wrote: I actually snipped off a tiny piece of the ring to get it back on.