Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
tomb
Victor IV
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Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:46 pm
Location: riverside calif

Re: Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Post by tomb »

Looks like it will be a nice phonograph when you get finished. I agree it is probably a 30s or 40s phonograph. When the depression hit in the 20s and early 30s phonograph records and machines highly decreased in manufacturing and several companies went out of business. The record business came back in the mid to latter 30s and there was not a lot of quality phonographs around to play the records. That led to a lot of companies putting out low priced picnic portables for people.. Some are hard to find out who made them. Ortho Fan does a good job on researching these. Good luck with the restoring. It may take some time to locate all the parts but they are somewhere. Tom

criageek
Victor Jr
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Post by criageek »

Thanks for all the great info guys, I really appreciate it!

Hey OrthoFan - that first picture looks nearly identical to mine, even the crank. But the tonearm is different...mine is straight:
top_004_r.jpg
I was pointed to this YouTube series showing how to rebuild a Victrola motor that provides some great info:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6R9i7zp-v9s&t=5s

While it's a different motor, many of the principles should be similar. For the time being I intend to put mine back together and get it working, then come back to rebuild the motor at some point (I'm in the middle of restoring a 1962 Seeburg jukebox...need to get back to that!).

I've reassembled everything and cranked it up, but as soon as I set the needle on it, it quickly slows to a stop. The tonearm is quite heavy so I wonder if there is something I've done wrong in assembling it. In this picture you can see that the bottom edge of the piece on the left has a raised ridge (circled in red) that fits into the piece on the right. The piece on the right has four 'spokes' (circled in yellow). The spoke on the left is much lower than the others. The one on the top and the one on the right are slightly lower than the one at the bottom. What is the proper way for these two pieces to fit together?
tonearm_006_r.jpg
tonearm_006_r.jpg (244.99 KiB) Viewed 340 times
Should there be a spring to help set the weight? This piece looks like it was meant to have a spring attached to it, although there is no evidence that a spring was ever attached.
tonearm_005_r.jpg
tonearm_005_r.jpg (249.33 KiB) Viewed 340 times
Thanks for the help!

Rich

OrthoFan
Victor V
Posts: 2178
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:12 pm

Re: Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Post by OrthoFan »

criageek wrote:Thanks for all the great info guys, I really appreciate it!

Hey OrthoFan - that first picture looks nearly identical to mine, even the crank. But the tonearm is different...mine is straight:

Thanks for the help!

Rich
Hi Rich:

As I noted in my post, the tonearm/reproducer that came with your machine is not the original one. The straight, non-tapered tonearms were produced prior to the introduction of electrical recording in 1925. During that period, the tapered style tonearm patent was still controlled by the big three manufacturers--Victor, Columbia and Edison. While you tonearm fits the mounting, it is not correct for the era in which your phonograph was manufactured--late 1930s/early '40s. Most likely, the phonograph's original tonearm, which was made of pot metal, cracked or crumbled away, or became frozen beyond use, and a later owner made the swap from parts he had available. As you noted, it's very heavy, so it probably came from a cabinet model with a larger, stronger motor.

You should be able to find a correct replacement, since virtually the same style tonearm and reproducer was fitted to most of the (US made) portables produced from the mid-1930s on, and parts, as well as junker models, come up for sale all the time on eBay, etc..

HTH,
OrthoFan

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drh
Victor IV
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 12:24 pm
Personal Text: A Pathé record...with care will live to speak to your grandchildren when they are as old as you are
Location: Silver Spring, MD

Re: Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Post by drh »

All that said, if the machine came to you with that tonearm attached, the chances are it worked at some time in the past. There's probably a good chance the motor has a weak, worn out spring or one that has been broken and shortened. Another possibility is that you're playing a record that's badly enough worn that it puts undue drag on the needle. Try one that is in good, reasonably shiny shape, preferably one of '30s vintage, and see if it runs better. The record in the picture is much later than your machine. Is it vinyl? If so, don't put it on that player! Even if not, it could well be exerting a lot more drag in play than the ones for which your machine was designed.

By the way, has anyone mentioned yet that a steel needle is good for one play only? Change the record, change the needle.

criageek
Victor Jr
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:53 pm

Re: Hand Crank Phono Info Needed

Post by criageek »

Thanks drh! I appreciate the input. Obviously, I am not experienced with these machines, but I am experienced with electronics and mechanical things, so here are my impressions. The motor seems to crank up smoothly and easily, and then rotates well, and quite silently. I won't know until I take it apart, but I'd be surprised if the spring(s) is(are) broken.

Here's the web page I found for that record:

https://www.discogs.com/Ray-Bloch-And-H ... se/7349710

While it isn't in great shape, it doesn't look bad enough that it should stop a record player completely.

I'll change needles...there are a bunch of extras in the cup.

Thanks again!

Rich

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