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 Post subject: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:13 pm 
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Victor IV
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This might be a question for an expert like Fran. When did the Edison Co. stop putting the Edison Official Laboratory Model medallions on their phonographs? I now own two Official Lab models that were assembled with the mechanism no sooner that 1922. That is because both of them, a William and Mary console, WMC-33, and my Early Italian Umbrian IU-19, have 10"/12" keys. I used to own a C-250 and a W-19, both without the keys, that had the medallions. Did C-19's with 10/12 keys, if they ever came that way, also not have the medallions?


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:41 am 
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Victor III
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I believe that 1915 was the first years starting with the C-250 Machines...but there were other machines as well, possibly even as early as 1913 even. The C-200 was also one of those machines.

The Medallions evolved though. I know of 4 different types.. I put them in the order that they were made below, From the 1st made, to the last 4th one made.

The first and second had a Pentastar Shape (to facilitate the use of 3 screws to hold it on) and background, The 3rd and the 4th were round and had One "Needle Pin in the Center" holding it onto the wood and the wording was different between the two. I'll post some pics of them..

"Did C-19's with 10/12 keys, if they ever came that way, also not have the medallions?"

Yep. They sure did. I personally have one of these machines, and it has the 10"/12" buttons and a "round" medallion...and I have seen others the same as mine as well. The last pic shown below show the one used on all the C-19 Models (1918-1927).

Also, Believe that the 10"/12" buttons were only used on very late machines. (1923-1927).

:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


Attachments:
Weird250dollarC250Medallion.jpg
Weird250dollarC250Medallion.jpg [ 208.14 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]
Edison C250 18.jpg
Edison C250 18.jpg [ 126.63 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]
Original Edison C250 Transition Model 1918 - 10.jpg
Original Edison C250 Transition Model 1918 - 10.jpg [ 254.54 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]
Edison C-19 Original9.jpg
Edison C-19 Original9.jpg [ 18.77 KiB | Viewed 350 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:14 am 
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Victor V
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Marc,

As far as the Chippendale is concerned, the medallion was present from its inception (Late 1915) through final production of them (probably piecemeal after 1925 until the "official" end of the Phonograph division in October 1929). Most likely the other "Official Laboratory Model" machines that were designated as such -- the hallmark being a Type C mechanism with double mainspring motor and "250" horn -- I assume the trend would've followed until the end of their production also.

For the Chippendale, I've compiled -- from empirical data I collected and my extensive research regarding the Chippendale C 250/19 -- a quick reference guide to the 4 different medallions and the approximate dates they would have been used throughout the many years of production. For the first time publicly, I've included my image to be shared and used freely. Hopefully this helps folks identify Chippendales for their authenticity. I would love if this could translate into production data for the other "OLM" models, too.

Best,
Fran


Attachments:
Medallions with production.jpg
Medallions with production.jpg [ 4.03 MiB | Viewed 302 times ]
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.
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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:24 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Fran is canning onions this morning, so we'll have to wait for word from The Oracle. Till then, I'll offer a few comments... [EDIT: Fran is in the building!]

The complete (and I mean COMPLETE) story of the C 250/C 19 can be found in the December 2015 through September 2016 issues of The Antique Phonograph in a 4-part article by Fran. All 4 medallions are shown.

NEFaurora wrote:
I believe that 1915 was the first years starting with the C-250 Machines...but there were other machines as well, possibly even as early as 1913 even. The C-200 was also one of those machines.


Tony, I'm not sure what you mean by "...there were other machines as well," but the C 200 wasn't an Official Laboratory Model.

NEFaurora wrote:
"Did C-19's with 10/12 keys, if they ever came that way, also not have the medallions?"

Yep. They sure did. I personally have one of these machines, and it has the 10"/12" buttons and a "round" medallion...and I have seen others the same as mine as well. The last pic shown below show the one used on all the C-19 Models (1918-1927).


The C 19 wasn't introduced until April 1919.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:45 am 
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Victor II
Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 2:30 pm
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“Fran is canning onions this morning, so we'll have to wait for word from The Oracle.”

That stinks!

“The complete (and I mean COMPLETE) story of the C 250/C 19 can be found in the December 2015 through September 2016 issues of The Antique Phonograph in a 4-part article by Fran. All 4 medallions are shown.”

Until our Document Index is complete, you may find those issues George referenced, including all other articles Fran has authored, by simply entering the Search Phrase:
Pratt (without any quotes) into the Search Engine.

“Tony, I'm not sure what you mean by "...there were other machines as well," but the C 200 wasn't an Official Laboratory Model.”

Medallions are available on eBay and elsewhere, and I have seen them placed on machines where they didn’t belong.


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:18 am 
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Victor III
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My A250 SN#4719 has an early medallion which clearly doesn't belong there. I didn't add it to my machine, but it's now part of the machine's history so it's staying right where it is.
"You can't take the phonographs nor the money with you, but the contentment the phonographs bring may well make your life better, and happier lives make the world a better place."


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:02 pm
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Location: Melbourne, FL
"“Tony, I'm not sure what you mean by "...there were other machines as well," but the C 200 wasn't an Official Laboratory Model.”


Yes, I was incorrect about the C-200 (ADAM)...... That machine WAS NOT an "Official Labratory Model" I had ADAM on the brain...


Correctly, It was the C-450 English (ADAM), and the W-250 (William and Mary) Models that were also "Official Laboratory Models".


Thanks for the correction George P. !


:o)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Always happy to oblige!

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Edison Laboratory medallion question?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 3:46 am 
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Victor IV
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Thanks Tony K. for those beautiful pics of the medallions! Your photos look like works of art! Just based on my personal knowledge, I've never seen an Official Edison Laboratory console model that had a medallion. Did they ever come with them? I'm talking the big console models, the English Adam 450; the Italian Umbrian I-19; the Chippendale CC-32; the William and Mary WMC-33.


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