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 Post subject: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:56 pm 
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Victor O
15, beginner when it comes to restoration.
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 74
Im aware that expanded pot metal bearings on Edison machines are common, but what is the real best way to remove an expanded in your opinion? I have a bearing stuck in my ICS machine, and the only part left of the bearing is a ring in the middle of the hole for the bearing. The mandrel shaft still won't budge. I did get a pipe that fits perfectly between the shaft and the hole for the bearing on the bed plate, but even then, when tapping or hitting it with a hammer, it still won't budge.

Like other things I have worked with, putting then in the freezer usually helps loosen stuck parts, but I'm afraid of putting the bad plate in the freezer. Wouldn't the bed plate "paint" crack because of the metal contracting? I have seen a forum member making a special drill bit to drill through the bearing. How do you approach this problem?

Any help is appreciated, Martin.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 782
Location: Port Huron, MI
I read on here that a tiny bit of muratic acid will eat the bearing and not harm the mandrel shaft. I did try that on the last one I did and found that it did work quite well. I tipped the machine on its side so I could put a few drops of the acid on the bearing and kept adding more every few hours. The next day it was free. No harm was done to the mandrel shaft and I was careful to keep it off the bed plate.
Dave D


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Victor O
15, beginner when it comes to restoration.
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 74
Dave D wrote:
I read on here that a tiny bit of muratic acid will eat the bearing and not harm the mandrel shaft. I did try that on the last one I did and found that it did work quite well. I tipped the machine on its side so I could put a few drops of the acid on the bearing and kept adding more every few hours. The next day it was free. No harm was done to the mandrel shaft and I was careful to keep it off the bed plate.
Dave D

I have heard that. I'll keep updated on how that goes.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:39 pm 
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Victor III
I've got both kinds of music--classical & rag-time.
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:39 am
Posts: 578
Location: South Carolina
Penetrating oil such as WD-40 or PB B'laster might work but I don't trust these substances around paint you want to keep. I put that on my Standard E which was also frozen and worked the mandrel by hand until it began turning rather grudgingly. The machine was repainted anyway, thus killing the smell and the slickness.

Also, taking a small flathead screwdriver a size above what jewelers use and chipping out pieces of the bearing works (IF it is starting to break down.)

Your Model C machine was in a lot better condition than my E-Model, so you're doing well to take it slow. I remember having to get a little busy with a hammer.

Failing any of these--why don't you turn a can of canned air up side down (not Endust, but plain Dust-Off or something) and shoot that cold gas on it? You'll freeze everything in sight and save yourself the embarrasment of family finding dead record players in the refrigerator.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:52 am 
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Victor O
15, beginner when it comes to restoration.
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 74
VanEpsFan1914 wrote:
Penetrating oil such as WD-40 or PB B'laster might work but I don't trust these substances around paint you want to keep. I put that on my Standard E which was also frozen and worked the mandrel by hand until it began turning rather grudgingly. The machine was repainted anyway, thus killing the smell and the slickness.

Also, taking a small flathead screwdriver a size above what jewelers use and chipping out pieces of the bearing works (IF it is starting to break down.)

Your Model C machine was in a lot better condition than my E-Model, so you're doing well to take it slow. I remember having to get a little busy with a hammer.

Failing any of these--why don't you turn a can of canned air up side down (not Endust, but plain Dust-Off or something) and shoot that cold gas on it? You'll freeze everything in sight and save yourself the embarrasment of family finding dead record players in the refrigerator.

WD-40 is actually really safe for the bed plate paint. I really liked your idea of the cold canned air. I will try that before using any dangerous chemicals. What ill do is freeze it, close one end of the bearing hole, fill it with wd-40 and try chipping it away with a jewels screwdriver. I could also put viniger in the hole and see if it will eat away at the bearing a little bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 782
Location: Port Huron, MI
For what it is worth, a drop of two of acid landed on the bed plate when I did this. I wiped it up with a rag and the bed plate looks fine.
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 5464
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
And another "...for what it's worth..." Several years ago I was struggling with a Model D Home's bearing. I had removed a number of them, but this one was a bear. I took it to a buddy of mine who - - despite my serious misgivings - - put a propane torch to the painted casting. Much to my surprise, the paint wasn't harmed a bit. That old asphaltum is tough!

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:40 pm 
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Victor O
15, beginner when it comes to restoration.
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
Posts: 74
phonogfp wrote:
And another "...for what it's worth..." Several years ago I was struggling with a Model D Home's bearing. I had removed a number of them, but this one was a bear. I took it to a buddy of mine who - - despite my serious misgivings - - put a propane torch to the painted casting. Much to my surprise, the paint wasn't harmed a bit. That old asphaltum is tough!

George P.

And did it crack the bearing enough to take it out easily? Assuming it expanded more to the point of cracking. Is it more effective than freezing it?


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 6:08 pm
Posts: 5464
Location: New York's Finger Lakes
Mormon S wrote:
And did it crack the bearing enough to take it out easily? Assuming it expanded more to the point of cracking. Is it more effective than freezing it?


Well, the bearing eventually came out (not easily), so in this instance the torch was more effective. In the past I've had success with freezing, but not that time. My point was that the paint is remarkably tough.

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Pot metal bearing removal (ICS Model C)
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:08 am 
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Victor III
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:46 pm
Posts: 945
Location: riverside calif
As a last resort you can take apiece of wood and gentle tap off the mandrel. That will give you a hidden area you can put a wrench on with some vice grips after you have soaked the bearing for a while or froze it . try gently rocking it back and forth like that with the mandrel off. Tom


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