ANY REPORTS ON THE STANTON AUCTION

[phonolady]

For those of us who could not make the auction, can anyone give a report


on some prices, what is selling well, etc?


Thanks,
David & Lerria

[toydk]

I just returned from Michigan. I only attended the auction yesterday. I was fortunate to pick up a golden oak Sonora Grand.

I have only been collecting phonographs for a few years but I would say the prices were definitely depressed. Some beautiful machines sold for very very low prices. I was wishing I had more room. You could see Steve Stanton was very frustrated at the prices he was getting.

[long_island_phono]

I just returned from Michigan. I only attended the auction yesterday. I was fortunate to pick up a golden oak Sonora Grand.

I have only been collecting phonographs for a few years but I would say the prices were definitely depressed. Some beautiful machines sold for very very low prices. I was wishing I had more room. You could see Steve Stanton was very frustrated at the prices he was getting.

Perhaps if they didn’t flood an already depressed market twice a year with hundreds of machines for an ever decreasing amount of buyers, the prices wouldn’t be so lousy.

[Silvertone]

I attended all three days of the auction and thought that the prices were market correct. The items that sold for “bargain“ prices had serious issues. Just comparing the catalog description with the hammer price doesn’t tell the full story. The quality items sold for strong prices.

[larryh]

I had a report from a member who was there as well. He said too that many things were not bringing the prices they once were. This isn't just the phonograph market I would say. We have been hearing for years from dealers who said the market for many things has fallen badly as the younger people for the most part are not interested in things we older ones consider collectable. I go to antique malls and shops within 80 miles or so of my home in the boonies so to speak and were finding more and more shops that were in business closed up. Several really nice large malls only open a few years are gone as well as smaller dealers. The mechanical music is suffering the same fate. Those people who always wanted a reproducing piano are leaving us in droves. Thus the pianos have little demand many times. A friend of mine answered a Ampico Knabe A ad and the woman took a liking to him and after a bit told him he could just have it if he would move it as she was having to down size. It was a Chinese art case to boot! Smaller collectables I have groups for often are selling for a fraction of what they were 8 years ago if people buy them at all. My mom says everything goes in a circle but I am not sure we will last to see the return?

[Phono-Phan]

"Perhaps if they didn’t flood an already depressed market twice a year with hundreds of machines for an ever decreasing amount of buyers, the prices wouldn’t be so lousy." [/quote]


You can't put blame on Stanton's auction for "lousy prices" He runs a business and has a couple of phonograph auction per year. Is he supposed to refuse items from people that want them sold at his auctions? They travel the country picking up items, photograph them, catalog them, advertise, rent space to hold the auction, etc... The market on just about all collectibles has been weakening for a while now. New interest in these items needs to be promoted.

[long_island_phono]

"You can't put blame on Stanton's auction for "lousy prices" He runs a business and has a couple of phonograph auction per year. Is he supposed to refuse items from people that want them sold at his auctions? They travel the country picking up items, photograph them, catalog them, advertise, rent space to hold the auction, etc... The market on just about all collectibles has been weakening for a while now. New interest in these items needs to be promoted."

I think a good argument can be made against a business, however much time is put into it, that brings to market more items than the dwindling collector base can handle, if you are keeping in mind a desire to maintain value. Looking at Stanton’s catalogs from 20 years ago you see only a few hundred lots as opposed to 1000 today, with far fewer buyers and funds. One cannot expect a clean Opera to bring 4-6k when you have 6 of them to sell in one sitting. Auctions force sales, unless there is a reserve. Forced sales mean low prices if everyone that can spend 6k on an Opera has purchased their machine already. I’m touching on the topic of what one could call reserved or integrity-based Capitalism. That’s for another discussion board.

[Phonofolks]

However, keep in mind there is a phonograph auction almost ever other month if you include Donely's auctions. So taking into consideration the depressed market and low interest in phonographs, the increased number of music auctions held and the majority of phonographs currently in the market place that are not rare but very common machines leads us to where we are today.

[Raphael]

Interesting topic. I suppose if we were talking about cell phones, or prime steaks, everybody would be cheering lower prices. Perhaps lower prices would or could be a market stimulator, rather than the other way around. But that is an esoteric discussion that would consume endless discussion time. And don't blame Stanton, the stuff he auctions would be on the market one way or another. His reasonable auction fees actually serve to increase, rather than decrease, realized prices (many auctioneers are charging about 25% on both ends!).

BUT, the issue at hand is why the prices are lower, not whether that is good or bad. I will point out a few:

1. The Chinese have been market drivers for the past 10 years. They have purchased many thousands of phonographs during this time. Starting about 18 months ago, the political climate caused the government to rein in on dollar spending. This has not just affected phonographs, but clocks, automatae, music boxes, etc. I actually have, in storage, items that were purchased by Chinese dealers, and fully paid for, over two years ago. They are afraid to import them as this will lead to trouble for them from the authorities.

2. The younger generation (Millenials?) in this country have almost zero interest in pre-WWII collectibles. I don't think that will change in my lifetime. My own son (27) scoffs at the idea of even holding on to a single item that we have set aside for him. He recently gave up his car and will be Uber-ing for the forseeable future. The world, it is a-changing.

3. The Baby-Boomers who have disposable money now are dropping it on stuff like modern art, muscle cars, etc. and not grandma's platinum brooches or grandfather clocks. The market for music boxes and clocks has tanked even worse than gramophones.

There are of course exceptions all across the board, and I continue to find and sell to many first-time buyers, but many of these are people looking for just one or two decorative pieces and do not become full-throttle collectors.

Raphael

[drh]

... Looking at Stanton’s catalogs from 20 years ago you see only a few hundred lots as opposed to 1000 today, with far fewer buyers and funds. ...

Perhaps we are seeing two sides of the same coin. On the one hand, interest in old phonographs is dwindling, meaning fewer buyers. On the other, interest in old phonographs is dwindling, meaning the supply is growing ever larger as those who inherit the things or are getting up in years and no longer can maintain collections of them seek to dispose of them.

Not good news for those of us who have sunk $$$ into existing collections with the hope of profiting/breaking even/recovering a substantial fraction some day. Not necessarily cause for undue concern for those of us who simply love having the old machines around and own them for the sake of our own pleasure, without worrying about recovering an investment. Unfortunately, the two groups are not mutually exclusive, and those in the second group can be in for an ugly surprise when they abruptly flop over into the first, finding that they need to find homes for much-loved things because the kids suddenly turn out not to want anything to do with them.