Homebrewing an Electric Gramophone?

[VanEpsFan1914]

All right--

I was going to get rid of that 1924-'25 Gilbert Geisha cabinet I have. It's really cool but it's been butchered internally--1929 Columbia motorboard, etc.

So I decided to turn it from a windup gramophone, into an electric one! .

I have to install an electric motor, a tone arm, electric pickup, power supply, amplifier, and a speaker--plus the trimmings like a grill cloth and all but I'm not too worried.

I know also that an Edison Ekonowatt is the default motor for building an electric cylinder player. Is there a similar go-to motor for a disc machine? I'm looking to find a governor-controlled model.

Anyone here have experience with building something like this? I am thinking to
1) Run the whole thing on vacuum tubes.
2) Build it with 1930s style parts.

Any suggestions?

[kirtley2012]

I've done something similar before, made a turntable for 78s using old parts, it's since been disassembled but It means that I have a 20s/30s HMV disc induction motor for sale, also a bakelite marconi tonearm if they would work for your project.

If you want to really fork out on a motor you could try and track down a Collaro Induction motor, I'd say they were the best I've come accross, theres one in my Expert Junior

[RolandVV-360]

In the realm of motors, I would suggest a Victor induction motor, or an aftermarket electric motor that can be found easily. After all else, the Victor induction motor is by far the best. For the tonearm and reproducer, there are many to be found. They don't come up often, but those little British electric reproducer attachments look nice, yet an RCA or Panatrope horseshoe reproducer will be very reliable. You may be able to find many different amplifiers for you setup, I would recommend an RCA 245, a very reliable amp used from '29-'30 in RCA and Victor products like the RE-45. Good luck!

[VanEpsFan1914]

Thanks for the replies!

Kirtley: I looked into the Collaro motor. Rare, expensive, and kind of neat...I can't afford that. I got the cabinet for free and sold the Model 100 Columbia motor to Peter F.

Roland: Thanks for the info on a good amplifier! I imagine that would have to be used with a field-coil speaker from back in the old days and a set of high-impedance headphones.


The vision for the machine is kind of elaborate. It's a big flat-top console on barley twist legs with a false door on the left side. The right side door used to house the horn, and the top has a toploading record compartment modified in the eighties.

I'm going to really trick it out. Cloth wiring entirely throughout the whole thing--it's going to look like the best 1930s machine they never made. Electric lamp, tone control over where the crank hole is on the side, hidden compartment behind the false door with a pair of 1920s high-impedance headphones...it's gonna be dope. (In my dreams! IF I can find the parts cheaply enough.)

I found a Grigsby-Grunow motor and tone arm assembly with "Majestic" on the front of the horseshoe pickup. The motor looks like a windup model with the springs replaced by an electric motor--a very old design I think.

Now to negotiate that purchase, then find the amp and a big field-coil speaker. But it's late so I better put up the laptop, blow out the oil lamp, and hit the sack.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Update here. I decided not to do this project.

Then I decided to do it.

Here are some pictures of my "new" Grigsby-Grunow electric motor and tonearm, from the eBay ad. I like the turntable because it has the old-time floating collar at the base of it like on a Victor VI or a VTLA.

Planning the machine--I am going to put the on-off switch on the side of the cabinet using the crank escutcheon as the main spot for that. On the back I am going to have to vent it out. I may use a modern amplifier but I don't know how to wire one of these antique tonearms. Do I need a preamp, or will the wiring from the pickup go directly to the amplifier and then to the loudspeaker?

These are so different than the windup phonographs we all collect.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Questions now for those in the know on electronics:


My brother and I were unpacking the motor and tonearm assembly today and discussing what kind of speaker and amplifier the machine needs. I had been thinking to put in a nice antique style tube amp and an old field-coil loudspeaker.

He said to install a modern amplifier and a big modern loudspeaker.

Either option ought to sound pretty good! I mean, it's a 78rpm machine, and 78s usually sound passable to my ears. Question is, can I get a modern amp to work with the old reproducer on this machine? It's a "Majestic" horseshoe-coil reproducer head that looks like the ones Victor used back in the late 1920s. I don't have a model number or name, other than the fact that it's built by Grigsby-Grunow.

If anyone has an idea how to rig this thing let me know. I'll dig around.

The 1920s tube amps Roland mentioned sound kind of neat but I don't have a power supply transformer. Also, they tend to be very expensive indeed.

Any ideas now?

There's plenty of time to decide. I have to figure out how to fit a motorboard, and the motor itself is locked up tight with old grease and is impossible to turn by hand.

[Wolfe]

Update here. I decided not to do this project.

Then I decided to do it.

Here are some pictures of my "new" Grigsby-Grunow electric motor and tonearm, from the eBay ad. I like the turntable because it has the old-time floating collar at the base of it like on a Victor VI or a VTLA.

Planning the machine--I am going to put the on-off switch on the side of the cabinet using the crank escutcheon as the main spot for that. On the back I am going to have to vent it out. I may use a modern amplifier but I don't know how to wire one of these antique tonearms. Do I need a preamp, or will the wiring from the pickup go directly to the amplifier and then to the loudspeaker?

These are so different than the windup phonographs we all collect.

Depends on how how high the output from the pickup is. Something like a crystal type are higher output. Probably you don't need an extra stage of amplification, unless you plan to use a modern lower output type of MM or MI cart / pickup.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Update: good news.

I managed to get the motor re-built today and it runs smooth, strong, and nearly silent, in spite of a damaged fiber drive gear. The whole thing is basically a driveshaft running horizontally, then a tall spindle shaft which is driven by a spur gear running against a worm.

The thing was a little tricky to disassemble but it is now re-packed with axle grease and the shiny parts are free of barn dirt and weed seeds. I had to hacksaw it from its original mounting bolts which were so badly bent that I could not turn them.

This means, of course, that I will be building a custom plywood motorboard and veneering it with oak to match the case, knocking trim molding off the 1929 Columbia 153a motorboard to make the edge with near the record bin.

Here is a link to the amplifier I am planning to use: https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/a ... -amplifier

And now I have to turn my attention to restoring the antique Majestic pickup & tone arm, as well as fine-tuning the speed control on the old motor.

I think I am going to copy & enlarge the grill design from my Oxford BZ Hornless Graphophone and use that with some nice art-deco grillcloth from the replica suppliers.

Power switches (my designs have changed a little, LOL) will be going inside the false door. I'm not running headphones unless I figure out how. I'd rather have functional simplicity than a wonderfully complex electric fire.

Though I prefer fixing my old windups, this is actually pretty fun. Can't wait to hear it play!

[Uncle Vanya]

That amplifier is simply awful. Expensive, and not at all suitable for use with your pick up.

The Majestic Pickup has a 200 ohm winding, which requires an input transformer to match it to the grid of a tube.

Your best bet for this set up would be to either build the amplifier yourself using parts scavanged from 1920's sets, or to find a late 1920's set which has a combination 2 step amplifier/power pack and use that.

Now, it is not uncommon to have a power amplifier stage included in the power pack, but you must look for a unit which also has the voltage amplifier stage built in. Generally this will be a chassis with four tubes: Voltage amplifier (a '26 or a '27), Power Amplifier (generally a pair of '45s) and rectifier (always an '80). The American Bosch set listed in this ad contains such an amplifier, and a good speaker to boot:

https://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/atq/ ... 74584.html

as does the equivalent Eveready set. The Brunswick 14, S-14, 21 and S-21 radios also have a suitable amplifier and an excellent speaker. These sets suffer from a poorly engineered pot metal tuning condenser assembly, and are quite often not repairable as radios by ordinary means. Another possibility would be to take a power supply from a common RCA Radiola 18 or 60 and build up a simple amplifier on a breadboard using tube sockets and components from a mid 1920s battery set.

remember, too, that your [pick-up will need to be rebuilt. the rubber dampers in these units turn hard and useless just as do the gaskets in a reproducer. In addition, the magnets in these pickups lose their power. It is best to have the pickup rebuilt by an expert. I recommend George Epple. His work is excellent, his turnaround time is quick, his repairs are not too expensive, and you will be guaranteed a first class job.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Well, thanks very much for telling me!

I knew this ignorance would lead to something. Good thing you stopped me when you did.

The idea of vintage parts sounds like fun, but I do hate to bust up original machines. If there are any around from absolute junkers then I could probably do something...if not, then I'll be wiring with transistors.