Edison Standard E

[52089]

Well folks, for the first time in decades....IT WOIKS!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bI3F6fBtzhw

Great job, AA! I am amazed that you have "He'd Have to Get Under . . . " on BA! It took me forever to find that record.

I second what others have said about a leather belt, but you've done a fine job thus far.

Best,
CPhono

I'll "third" the leather belt, and also tell you to make sure the belt tensioner wheel is turning freely. You'll get rid of a lot of the wow and flutter with a proper belt.

[AmberolaAndy]

Well folks, for the first time in decades....IT WOIKS!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bI3F6fBtzhw

Great job, AA! I am amazed that you have "He'd Have to Get Under . . . " on BA! It took me forever to find that record.

I second what others have said about a leather belt, but you've done a fine job thus far.

Best,
CPhono

I wish somebody would sell a perfectly cut and beveled leather belt ready to glue and go. But right now I’m satisfied with the O-ring. (I got the idea from THEVICTROLAGUY on YouTube) I also have one on my Model B standard and it plays just fine. I know it’s not period correct, but I just cannot stand warble! To each their own I guess.

[AmberolaAndy]

Ok, next issue. the weight of the horn is causing the Model H reproducer to tip and not track very well. Is there a longer hold screw out there that will hold the adapter and the reproducer in place? I am using a witch’s hat horn since I do not have a proper crane for my morning glory horn.

[FellowCollector]

the weight of the horn is causing the Model H reproducer to tip and not track very well.

This should not be happening. Try removing both the reducer ring and the reproducer. Once you have them out and you're looking at the empty carriage assure that by clockwise rotation of the carriage thumb screw you can see that the end of the screw enters well into the reproducer hole. If it does (and it should) then you know that the adapter ring can be locked into position so that it cannot move. So that is not your problem.

Next, do the same procedure for the adapter ring screw. If the end of that screw easily enters well into the reproducer hole (and it should) then your H reproducer (or C reproducer) should be able to be securely locked into the adapter ring. So that is not the problem.

Assure that the reproducer is seated completely inside the adapter ring and securely tightened inside the adapter ring. And then assure that the adapter ring with the reproducer inside it is securely tightened in the carriage hole and if so you should have no movement of the ring or the reproducer. Try moving the assembly with your fingers. There should be zero movement on top.

The weight of the horn and the angled reproducer throat adapter does exert some tension on the reproducer throat and the adapter ring but if both the reproducer and the adapter ring are securely tightened there should be no movement at all. I use one of my Edison Standard model B's set up exactly like you have with no problem at all.

And for what it's worth, a very gentle comment regarding the rubber O-ring you're using: you will remove all of the noticeable sound fluctuation (I can hear in your video) during play of a cylinder by replacing the O-ring with a leather belt. The belts are so easy to make and you'll be thankful of the noticeable results. The sound fluctuation from the rubber stretching and contracting will be gone and you'll hear nice smooth natural sound from your cylinders.

Flutter in playback of cylinders is a totally different animal and I don't hear that at all in your video - only the sound fluctuation from the rubber ring stretching and contracting. After many years of trying to figure out the primary culprit of flutter during cylinder playback I found that it is almost 100% the result of the governor friction disc NOT rotating perfectly true. And you can see it happening by carefully watching the friction disc spin at a slow speed.

I cannot tell you how many of my cylinder phonographs (especially some of my Columbia's) had the annoying flutter until I removed and sent the friction discs out to be spun and 'trued' by a friend with a metal lathe. When I reinstalled the friction discs and the governor...VOILA! No more flutter. This, of course, presumes that all else on the governor is fine and a good leather belt is installed.

Good luck!

Doug

[AmberolaAndy]

the weight of the horn is causing the Model H reproducer to tip and not track very well.

This should not be happening. Try removing both the reducer ring and the reproducer. Once you have them out and you're looking at the empty carriage assure that by clockwise rotation of the carriage thumb screw you can see that the end of the screw enters well into the reproducer hole. If it does (and it should) then you know that the adapter ring can be locked into position so that it cannot move. So that is not your problem.

Next, do the same procedure for the adapter ring screw. If the end of that screw easily enters well into the reproducer hole (and it should) then your H reproducer (or C reproducer) should be able to be securely locked into the adapter ring. So that is not the problem.

Assure that the reproducer is seated completely inside the adapter ring and securely tightened inside the adapter ring. And then assure that the adapter ring with the reproducer inside it is securely tightened in the carriage hole and if so you should have no movement of the ring or the reproducer. Try moving the assembly with your fingers. There should be zero movement on top.

The weight of the horn and the angled reproducer throat adapter does exert some tension on the reproducer throat and the adapter ring but if both the reproducer and the adapter ring are securely tightened there should be no movement at all. I use one of my Edison Standard model B's set up exactly like you have with no problem at all.

And for what it's worth, a very gentle comment regarding the rubber O-ring you're using: you will remove all of the noticeable sound fluctuation (I can hear in your video) during play of a cylinder by replacing the O-ring with a leather belt. The belts are so easy to make and you'll be thankful of the noticeable results. The sound fluctuation from the rubber stretching and contracting will be gone and you'll hear nice smooth natural sound from your cylinders.

Flutter in playback of cylinders is a totally different animal and I don't hear that at all in your video - only the sound fluctuation from the rubber ring stretching and contracting. After many years of trying to figure out the primary culprit of flutter during cylinder playback I found that it is almost 100% the result of the governor friction disc NOT rotating perfectly true. And you can see it happening by carefully watching the friction disc spin at a slow speed.

I cannot tell you how many of my cylinder phonographs (especially some of my Columbia's) had the annoying flutter until I removed and sent the friction discs out to be spun and 'trued' by a friend with a metal lathe. When I reinstalled the friction discs and the governor...VOILA! No more flutter. This, of course, presumes that all else on the governor is fine and a good leather belt is installed.

Good luck!

Doug

Ok, I didn’t notice the screw in the hole in the reducer ring! My bad! Now it works lol!

I got the idea of the o-ring from this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pzGpR3O19kA

And it’s not that I have a problem with using the leather belt. It’s MAKING the leather belt smooth enough where the splice doesn’t cause annoying warble or at the correct length were it won’t cause drag. As I said before, if only somebody sold a leather belt that’s measured and beveled correctly where you just glue and go...

[AmberolaAndy]

Now with the reproducer securely screwed in. Here’s a better video of it in action.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PwOark75yf8

[Lucius1958]

the weight of the horn is causing the Model H reproducer to tip and not track very well.

This should not be happening. Try removing both the reducer ring and the reproducer. Once you have them out and you're looking at the empty carriage assure that by clockwise rotation of the carriage thumb screw you can see that the end of the screw enters well into the reproducer hole. If it does (and it should) then you know that the adapter ring can be locked into position so that it cannot move. So that is not your problem.

Next, do the same procedure for the adapter ring screw. If the end of that screw easily enters well into the reproducer hole (and it should) then your H reproducer (or C reproducer) should be able to be securely locked into the adapter ring. So that is not the problem.

Assure that the reproducer is seated completely inside the adapter ring and securely tightened inside the adapter ring. And then assure that the adapter ring with the reproducer inside it is securely tightened in the carriage hole and if so you should have no movement of the ring or the reproducer. Try moving the assembly with your fingers. There should be zero movement on top.

The weight of the horn and the angled reproducer throat adapter does exert some tension on the reproducer throat and the adapter ring but if both the reproducer and the adapter ring are securely tightened there should be no movement at all. I use one of my Edison Standard model B's set up exactly like you have with no problem at all.

And for what it's worth, a very gentle comment regarding the rubber O-ring you're using: you will remove all of the noticeable sound fluctuation (I can hear in your video) during play of a cylinder by replacing the O-ring with a leather belt. The belts are so easy to make and you'll be thankful of the noticeable results. The sound fluctuation from the rubber stretching and contracting will be gone and you'll hear nice smooth natural sound from your cylinders.

Flutter in playback of cylinders is a totally different animal and I don't hear that at all in your video - only the sound fluctuation from the rubber ring stretching and contracting. After many years of trying to figure out the primary culprit of flutter during cylinder playback I found that it is almost 100% the result of the governor friction disc NOT rotating perfectly true. And you can see it happening by carefully watching the friction disc spin at a slow speed.

I cannot tell you how many of my cylinder phonographs (especially some of my Columbia's) had the annoying flutter until I removed and sent the friction discs out to be spun and 'trued' by a friend with a metal lathe. When I reinstalled the friction discs and the governor...VOILA! No more flutter. This, of course, presumes that all else on the governor is fine and a good leather belt is installed.

Good luck!

Doug

Ok, I didn’t notice the screw in the hole in the reducer ring! My bad! Now it works lol!

I noticed the same problem in the adapter that came with my Triumph: Thanks to Doug for pointing that out!

Bill

[AmberolaAndy]

Ok ok ok guys... I’m starting to give in. Who has the best belting material and what’s the best glue for belts? What’s the proper length for a standard so I don’t end up cutting it too short and I end up throwing it away? How do I make the splice smooth enough so there is no bump where the ends meet that causes warble? (This is what caused the warble on my Home model B) Can I glue the belt together on the pulleys, or do I have to glue it off the pulleys then take the top works apart again and slip on the belt?

[52089]

Ok ok ok guys... I’m starting to give in. Who has the best belting material and what’s the best glue for belts? What’s the proper length for a standard so I don’t end up cutting it too short and I end up throwing it away? How do I make the splice smooth enough so there is no bump where the ends meet that causes warble? (This is what caused the warble on my Home model B) Can I glue the belt together on the pulleys, or do I have to glue it off the pulleys then take the top works apart again and slip on the belt?

This board has an excellent search function for frequently asked questions like this.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Answers.

Best belt material: Wyatt Markus.

Best belt glue: See his video.

Best tools: Razor blades. (You do use a proper razor and blades, do you not? 5 cents and no acne...can't beat an old-time safety razor, even if "safety" is relative.)

Best sound: Leather belt.

I wish all phono-chores were easy as belt installation!