In Defense of Polyurethane (sort of…)

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Markola
Victor Jr
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In Defense of Polyurethane (sort of…)

Post by Markola »

Someone in a recent post took the position that anyone using polyurethane anywhere near an antique phonograph was the devil incarnate, and certainly wasn’t welcome ‘round these here parts. :D

I understand this position, and actually agree with the sentiment behind it for the most part. (It’s not the finish they originally used… something is only original once, etc…) And when I have to refinish a piece I plan on keeping, I get some amber shellac, thin it with alcohol, and wipe on thin coats, trying to replicate the color and appearance of the original finish. (And I know how to touch-up and maintain this finish, which is an important factor.)

However, I think there are occasional circumstances where a poly-based varnish can be appropriate. (By the way, this includes most modern varnishes such as “Tung” oil, Watco, Danish varnishes, etc. – all typically poly varnishes. And if you stain with Minwax stains or similar, guess what? Yup… poly in there, too. So be careful when you cast the first stone.)

I really enjoy taking an old, thrashed Victrola – on the brink of being binned – and bringing it back from the dead with a full resto. The problem is, our house already has “enough” old phonographs (as defined by SWMBO) and I agree – our basic rule is ‘one per room,’ so they look like they belong there as opposed to a collection. (Not judging here – if you have 40 phonographs in your living room, rock on.) But the bottom line is, we were full up.

I was bummed (because restoring old things is something I find enjoyable and stress-reducing) until I thought, “Hmm… my brother could really use a little tabletop model up at his cabin – that way when the power goes out he’ll at least still have music.” And I was off to the races. I’ve since done a full rehab on around a dozen Victrolas and gifted them to deserving, appreciative recipients. Mostly the little guys (VV-VI’s and VV-IV’s), a few lidded models (VIII’s and IX’s) and the occasional floor model, with more waiting in the wings. Always with a good “starter” selection of records and needles, etc. (Sort of a “Johnny Appleseed” thing, I guess, just trying to spread the phono-love…)

And EVERY ONE OF THESE WAS SENT OUT WITH A HAND-RUBBED VARNISH FINISH. (In other words, polyurethane.) Not a thick, plasticky looking spray finish, but varnish just the same. (Typically poly varnish thinned way down and applied by hand in two or three thin coats, then usually rubbed out and polished.) And under that finish is my modern take on the two-step staining process some early manufacturers used, with an acetone-based dye on the raw wood (these things almost universally have no real finish left so they’re stripped, filled, and sanded first) followed by a typical oil-based stain.

So yes, they sport a finish that might look slightly different to the trained eye than they had when they left the factory a hundred years ago. (Not that any of us have actually seen that, which is a different topic.) But (and here’s the main point to this long-winded post) they aren’t going to collectors, or dealers, or aficionados, or even necessarily to people who own and regularly maintain antique furniture of any type. They’re going to people who have expressed a real interest and fascination in my own talking machines, and who have a love of music and/or history. And to a person, they absolutely LOVE their “new” Victrola, which is usually placed in a position of honor in their home and used regularly.

My point being, in cases like these, a poly-based varnish can actually be a good finish. If done right it can look very close to a shellac finish but it will need virtually no maintenance other than occasional dusting for the next 50 years or so. And yes, it can be removed if someone wishes to apply an as-original, collector-approved, factory finish at some point down the road – there are plenty of modern products which will remove polyurethane. (Keeping in mind these aren’t mint condition rare models but garden variety garage-sale Victrolas in really poor cosmetic condition to begin with.)

It’s kind of like the vintage car scene: You’ve got bone stock, never-touched, rusty originals. You’ve got really cool modified hotrods. And you’ve got fully-restored showpieces that look as good as the day they rolled off the assembly line. I respect all three methodologies, but when it comes to gifting someone with their first (and likely only) antique phonograph, in my experience the third methodology works pretty well.

I’m sure there are other methods which work well for you, and I fully respect the “original at all cost” mentality (and ascribe to it myself at times). It’s just that I wanted to point out there are certain situations where a modern varnish might actually make sense. YMMV. :)

Cheers!
Mark
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Not too worried about preserving the finish here. (When I got it there was fake leather glued to the top!)  :)
Not too worried about preserving the finish here. (When I got it there was fake leather glued to the top!) :)
Same here - the "finish" is mostly dirt and grime. Nothing original left.
Same here - the "finish" is mostly dirt and grime. Nothing original left.
Not as-found, but the owner is very happy and it will last w/o maintenance.
Not as-found, but the owner is very happy and it will last w/o maintenance.

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Jwb88
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Re: In Defense of Polyurethane (sort of…)

Post by Jwb88 »

You've got your head on straight, and I respect that.

Personally, I've gotten to the point where I almost exclusively use shellac. It just has that "look." With grain filler and a buffing, it can match the beauty of the inside of doors and underside of lids--sometimes even exceed them. It takes me months to refinish anything like that, so I only do it to the machines I really love and intend on keeping 'til death do us part. I have a Fireside that's on my refinish list. It was "restored" in the 80s and while most people would think it looks great, I can't stand it. No grain filler, dry, hard, varnish, too light, the replacement decal is all wrong, etc. However, if another owner were happy with it in this state, I wouldn't be annoyed with them for leaving it as-is.

I admit that shellac is a somewhat fragile finish for people who don't know how to care for, well, nice things (vast majority of people). Maybe poly, varnish, lacquer is better suited to modern life (I'm just trying to see the other side here. I still feel people ought to learn how to maintain genuinely nice things or not have them).

Anyway, the example you give is a good one: obviously a common machine left for dead. Much worse things have been done to far rarer machines. And the finish looks great--although that oak is so red, I think it might be blushing from compliments!

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Indestructible
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Re: In Defense of Polyurethane (sort of…)

Post by Indestructible »

Well said and done !
When a machine is too far gone you need to explore other options and be glad you saved it.

VanEpsFan1914
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Re: In Defense of Polyurethane (sort of…)

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

A thoughtful and balanced post!

I do also appreciate your passion for salvaging the garden-variety Victrolas people usually junk or part out. They were once someone's machine, and what is common now is tomorrow's rarity.

And I also love the shellac-thinned-with-alcohol finish. Very pretty. I use that on all mine too.


BUT--I did notice a few things, and as the forum's designated polyurethane hater I had to mention a bit.

1.) Minwax with poly? Not on my phonographs. I use Minwax oil-based stains.

2. Salvaging junker machines is totally awesome, but there is always the danger that someone of a more "purist" bent will wreck it for parts because they're too lazy to strip and refinish. Those people are out there, unfortunately.

(I have had to get polyurethane out of mahogany, and it is no fun in the least. The thought will arise, "I paid $25 for this machine and it's been two bloody months! How much does a tonearm go for on the internet again?)


3. I don't find shellac that hard to keep beautiful. Just a quick wipe with furniture wax (no Pledge or "lemon oil" really goes a long ways to keeping antique finishes and replicas nine miles deep.

4. We're entering a more ecologically conscious age (so everyone says.) Not only are shellac and nitrocellulose better for the environment, the strippers and removers are better for the environment. It takes pretty nasty stuff to remove polyurethane, like Zip Strip. Great paint remover, but formulated in the 1950s with cyanide compounds or something like that. I accidentally got in the fumes one time and thought I was going to die. Had me worried I wouldn't finish my first Victrola restoration!


One thing we can all agree on, is that you really did a nice job putting that one Victrola cabinet back together, and that the little red VV-VI and stand are super shiny! I bet the new owners really do enjoy their machines.


Keep 'em running, Forum gang...I suppose as long as they change the needle after each play they should be fine!

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