Victrola Orthophonic Reproducer - Advice Requested

[jmad7474]

I am in the process of restoring a "unique" Victrola 1-90 from 1927. (I say "unique" because the previous owner decided to use it as a decorative display piece only and as such, did a GREAT job on refinishing the cabinet in a historically correct and beautiful manner but left the motor and mechanics to basically rot away.) With a lot of elbow grease and my surplus of vacation time from work, I will have this thing playing and looking as good as it did new over 90 years ago. There is just one little problem: It has no reproducer!!

I have called a few antique phonograph and radio repair organizations about this, and they have all said the same thing: they will repair an Orthophonic reproducer but do not have any extras of them at the ready to sell me. In addition, the ones I have found on eBay are in various states of disrepair and obviously will not play satisfactorily without a total rebuild.

Would I be better off just waiting for a rebuilt antique bronze finish Orthophonic reproducer to come along (and pay a few hundred dollars to boot), or should I buy one of the junky ones from eBay and then send that off to be rebuilt? Does anyone reading this have a rebuilt antique bronze finish reproducer that they would be willing to part with? Orthophonics are very finicky animals, and their high market demand makes it hard for budget-minded collectors like myself to know what is the best route to take since I normally only buy machines with the proper reproducers already installed and rebuild them myself. (I only made an exception to that rule with this machine due to its rarity.)

Thank you for your help and have a safe and happy 2019!

[52089]

Might I suggest a sort of compromise? Although the antiqued finish reproducer is the correct one, it is a bit hard to find and expensive. Why not find a decent nickel one, which will be less expensive, and have it restored properly.

Another alternative would be one from an Orthophonic portable. These tend to be even less expensive but are usually in good shape.

[JerryVan]

Jmad7474,

Unless you know who rebuilt some example from eBay, I would opt for buying one that needs repair, but has NO CRACKS whatsoever in the housing. Then, send it off to a known, excellent rebuilder, (Mica Monster comes to mind), and you'll have something you can enjoy. As you've mentioned, Orthophonic reproducers can be very finicky, and "rebuilt" means different things to different people. Have it truly rebuilt by a reputable source.

If you're a bit patient, a nice bronze finish example will show itself fairly soon, I'm sure. Gold ones are at the top of the price heap, bronze shouldn't be too bad.

[bigshot]

Look on eBay for a suitcase model VV-2-65. These come with a ortho sound box that is actually better than the pot metal ones on the standup machines. You can usually get one of these for a better price than buying a shot sound box and getting it serviced. That would get you up and running until a bronze one comes along.

[JerryVan]

This looks like a good rebuild candidate, however, I'm not sure what the seller is trying to show in his 4th photo. You may want to ask about that light colored area at the base of the neck...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Victor ... rk:30:pf:0

[jmad7474]

Thank you all for your advice! I will be on the lookout for an reproducer that is in good physical condition and one that can tolerate a rebuild without falling apart or splitting...I have also placed a call to a collector acquaintance who will check his warehouse inventory in about 2 weeks when he returns from vacation for any antique-bronze Orthos he may have.

The good news to tide me over until I acquire a proper reproducer is that the VV 1-90 now fully operates and looks as it should. (Table placemats in the appropriate colors and designs also make excellent replacement grille cloth fabric for these players, btw.) It sounds unbelievably good using my iPod adapter in place of the reproducer - I can only imagine how it will sound playing records!

Stay tuned for further developments on this story as they arise!

[OrthoSean]

The 1-90 is a great little machine, congrats! Mine was also missing it's proper bronze reproducer when I got it. Eventually the correct one "found me" when I picked up a collection of parts, machines and a lotta records a couple years ago, and Wyatt (MicaMonster) did a fantastic job as usual rebuilding it. I've always wondered why the antique bronze finish orthos always seem to be in horrible shape if they're even present. Seems almost all of them suffer horribly.

Sean

[zenith82]

This looks like a good rebuild candidate, however, I'm not sure what the seller is trying to show in his 4th photo. You may want to ask about that light colored area at the base of the neck...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Victor ... rk:30:pf:0

I highly suspect that's pot metal fatigue that someone in the past has attempted to repair. Just to be safe, I think I'd pass on this one.

[PeterF]

It sounds as if cosmetics are more important than use for this particular machine, so perhaps the following approach could work:

1. find the cheapest intact orthophonic soundbox with the appearance you seek, and display it on the machine until you can afford to...

2. send it off to Wyatt Markus ("micamonster" on this forum) with some money, to make it sound as good to you as it looks to you.

If it's about listening, the finish on the shell isn't so important. Over the years I've accumulated a pretty good pile of these soundboxes, and they are nickel-plated, gold-plated, gold-painted, antique-finished, chromed, plating partially flaking off...and even real ugly gray bare metal. Some are from portables, with the extra felt-and-screen scratch filter cover on the shell. One even has a custom hand-painted shell, which is silly but sentimental for me. But they almost all have unique sound characteristics, based upon the whim of the rebuilder and other factors; balanced, bottom-heavy, bright, loud, quiet...etc. So I switch them out in accordance of my mood and the type of music being played, and almost always the finish does not "match" the tonearm.

(I don't say this as a humble-brag, although it likely comes across as one. Like any aspect of our hobby, if you like something and focus on it, the hardware tends to accumulate. And I suppose I've been at this long enough that this is what has happened.)

When you are listening to that great record on that great-sounding reproducer, the soundbox could have been painted International Orange with a rattle-can and you probably won't care. But I also understand how that might be a bit jarring to walk past during any other time.

In any event, you will definitely want any soundbox to be rebuilt (and importantly for the pot metal examples, structurally stabilized). A word on pot metal: if it is deeply cracked and/or actively flaking or chipping, it's likely to get worse and may be a lost cause no matter what. But if it's pot metal and looks pretty good, it has probably done all or most of the deteriorating it's going to do. One of the major factors on the rate and intensity of decline and damage in these is exposure to environmental corrosives and temperature extremes - hot and cold cycles promote internal crystallization, causing expansion and cracking and flaking. Hopefully our houses are less hostile in this way than the attics, barns, and garages where a lot of this stuff has languished before we found it.

I'd say that paying extra on eBay for one that is marketed as "rebuilt" is definitely not the way to go, because you likely will have no recourse if it was done poorly - plus people define "rebuilt" in many different ways.

I know of nobody other than Wyatt who is doing it properly these days. For more on that:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=38287

Good luck!

[jmad7474]

Wow, this thread is more popular than I expected it to be! Thanks for the continued advice and I will NOT be bidding on that reproducer - it definitely looks like pot metal fatigue that was (rather poorly, in my opinion) repaired some time ago. I have located one other possible antique-bronze reproducer in good shape, but I am waiting for the seller to let me know whether he is going to definitely sell it or not since he is expecting a project machine of his own to arrive in the near future that he could use it for. (Peter, at this point I WOULD take a rebuilt Orthophonic painted orange - everyone who has an Ortho seems to have it in either totally unacceptable condition or wants to hang onto theirs for one reason or another!)

Sean, I suspect the reason why most antique-bronze Orthos are usually in such worse shape compared to the other Orthos in nickel or gold finishes is because most of the machines which employed the antique-bronze finish were cheaper models which were sold to people less wealthy than those who could afford the nickel or gold-finished floor models, and who then did not bother to take proper care of them throughout the years. Considering Victor's stringent quality standards of their production, I doubt it had anything to do with the original casting quality of the metal.

In other somewhat-related news, I was sealing the tonearm mount last night and was about to loosen the last screw in the base when I heard something below it rattle loudly and fall into the horn. After spending about 20 minutes fishing it out, I discovered that someone had stuck an entire UNUSED tin of Tungs-Tone needles into the opening! Aside from a few patches of surface rust, it's in like-new condition and will display very nicely on the needle tin holder clips. Talk about starting the new year off right