Cheney Westminster phonograph?

[eighteenbelow]

I have the opportunity to buy this handsome upright, but I'm a bit concerned, because it looks like the grille, in addition to needing some veneer work, is actually missing a large central X-shaped piece. I'm not positive, though, because I can't find any photos of this model online; all I have found is the attached ad, and it's not entirely clear to me that this is the same model (though it sure looks like it.) Does anyone out there have one of these? Can you confirm that the center X-shaped insert on the grille is, indeed, missing, or did they make some without it? I can't see any obvious places where it would have snapped off, but perhaps it was mounted behind the outer grille?

Also: This machine comes with a second Cheney reproducer (in a box), but it doesn't look like it's designed to play vertical records. Does anyone know why Cheney included these, and what they were supposed to do?

[estott]

Cheney machines came with two reproducers- one for lateral, one for vertical. They lso came with jewel tipped stylises for Pathé and Edison.

[PeterF]

Unless you really like it, don’t pay more than $75 for this. The grille is broken/incomplete and it’s not a high-line model (nickel not gold fittings).

Cheneys came with two reproducers, one for vertical play and one for lateral. They used gutta-percha, a rubber-like organic material, for their diaphragms - and it has not aged well. Combine that with the patent-crippled tonearm and horn geometry and you have a recipe for sonic disaster.

[estott]

This link is to a set of Cheney catalog images- yours does look like the Style 31 Westminster, with a chunk of the grille missing, http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... ey+catalog

Peter is entitled to his opinion, but the Cheney machines I've heard, after proper replacement of gaskets (slightly tricky) are not disasters.

[marco]

I have the opportunity to buy this handsome upright, but I'm a bit concerned, because it looks like the grille, in addition to needing some veneer work, is actually missing a large central X-shaped piece. I'm not positive, though, because I can't find any photos of this model online; all I have found is the attached ad, and it's not entirely clear to me that this is the same model (though it sure looks like it.) Does anyone out there have one of these? Can you confirm that the center X-shaped insert on the grille is, indeed, missing, or did they make some without it? I can't see any obvious places where it would have snapped off, but perhaps it was mounted behind the outer grille?

Also: This machine comes with a second Cheney reproducer (in a box), but it doesn't look like it's designed to play vertical records. Does anyone know why Cheney included these, and what they were supposed to do?

From the catalog photos provided--your Cheney grill looks exactly like the one one the Cheney Style 20 Sheraton; although the cabinet does resemble the other models. Mabe they were interchangeable? I would be thrilled to find an off brand like this with both reproducers. Most of the battle is won; and I have never seen the verticle reproducer that was offered with these machines.

[PeterF]

I love Cheneys - to look at and to giggle over the pseudo-science bafflegab in their marketing materials. And the needle stepper loader doodad is genius. And the tonearm design is gorgeous. But if just about anything else is around for listening I’ll choose it over a Cheney.

The best Cheney is a dirt cheap and/or gold trimmed Cheney.

Reproducers of both varieties show up all the time, often in the special cardboard dual storage box. I might have an extra out in the garage if you want one, Mark.

[marco]

I love Cheneys - to look at and to giggle over the pseudo-science bafflegab in their marketing materials. And the needle stepper loader doodad is genius. And the tonearm design is gorgeous. But if just about anything else is around for listening I’ll choose it over a Cheney.

The best Cheney is a dirt cheap and/or gold trimmed Cheney.

Reproducers of both varieties show up all the time, often in the special cardboard dual storage box. I might have an extra out in the garage if you want one, Mark.

Thanks, Peter, but I no longer have a Cheney or any other "off brand' machines right now. Sold them off years ago when I got into jukeboxes. I, too got a good laugh at the advertising claims of the many different upright machines I have owned over the years. What did they say when Henry Ford added Colors to his model "T" line in 1927--"You Can Paint Up A Barn And Call It A Parlor--But It Is Still A Barn." I, too stick mainly with Edison, Victor and Columbia machines.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Well, the Big Three are nice but that Cheney cabinet looks majorly cool! If it were restored it would be a nice departure...my Victrola XIV, with all curves, always looks not like furniture but a Victrola.

Don't get me started on Sonoras; they always look like Mae West.

[Victrolacollector]

Cheney’s cabinets are nice if they are in good condition. But like most independent brand machines, they do not have a high value to begin with. In good condition the ball park value is probably 200.00 and that of course depends where you live give or take. But by the time you get the reproducer properly restored, grille repaired or replaced you are at at least another 100.00 not counting any do it yourself supplies to refinish, motor parts. It is fine if you are keeping the machine for a while, but if you plan to keep it a year or two until you get tired of it, then I would not expect a return. Trust me I have had many machines that I have restored to only get maybe ½ of what I paid when it’s time to sell.

When I got my first machine, a Magnola Talking Machine back in the late 1980’s, it was painted in brown paint, it cost me over 200.00 in supplies for the stain, brushes, steel wool, varnish etc., then the reproducer broke and another Magnola reproducer was 75.00, and then the fiber spindle gear was worn out, that had to be replaced for $35.00, all governor springs were stretched and replaced for 15.00 and both mainsprings replaced for 80.00 back then by Wyatt’s Musical Americana.

So on top of the 125.00 purchase price and over 350.00 in parts into the machine, there is over 400.00 invested in the machine and probably would be lucky to get 150.00. My point is just look at any machine and assess the condition and price and any repairs. Sometimes that beautiful gutted cabinet is not worth the cost of the parts.

Some ideas for the grill maybe try:

Ron Sitko450.00
Or George Vollema at Great Lakes Phonograph (he opens in April)

And maybe Gramps Treausures may have or make you one.

Best with the Cheney

[eighteenbelow]

Thanks, everyone. I've never owned a Cheney, so it's interesting to hear people's opinions about how they sound. What do you think of Starr phonographs? In your opinion, do they sound better or worse than Cheneys?