The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

It is currently Fri May 24, 2019 1:00 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:51 pm 
Offline
Victor III
User avatar
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:31 pm
Posts: 831
Location: New Hampshire’s West Coast
The Nickel tends to be very thin, so a good, gentle cleaning without abrasives is safest. To me, an antique should display its age, or at least not look new. These are not defects as much as they are a record of existence and proof of usage. I like a machine with a little character.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 12:10 am 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Jim S
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Falls Church, Virginia
I agree. I would have only overhauled the motor and reproducer if the cabinet had not suffered a "poor" quality refinish years before my time. So I opted to do a complete strip/stain/refinish on the cabinet and re-plate the bullet brake and speed control, and replace the crank and crank escutcheon as they were both badly worn. I can tell that this phonograph was heavily used, but overall well cared for. I feel lucky to own it. Can't wait to post a few pics once it's back together.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:30 pm 
Offline
Victor O
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:56 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Michigan
Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:53 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Jim S
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Falls Church, Virginia
Roy -
That's very interesting information. My understanding is that the Victor 3 (III) was first produced in 1902. And the paper license sticker on the bottom (which has "883" penciled on it) has a date in the lower corner of March 1, 1902. So I'm thinking that this is a 1902 phonograph.

I did find this on the victrola.com web site, which also mentions that the Victrola serial numbers started with number 501:

Quote:
The Serial Number
It’s highly likely that the serialization of external horn Victors started from s/n 100. It was rather difficult to identify the exact dating of these very early models of external horn machines since a reset in the serial numbers was performed in 1905. Then, another reset was also done in 1909. In other words, there can be at least 2 or even more serial numbers that are identical for a given model. Furthermore, the earliest machines have incomplete factory records. When this is the case, dating a phonograph accurately can be possible with some educated guessing.


Thanks,
Jim


Attachments:
File comment: License Sticker
plate.jpg
plate.jpg [ 1.41 MiB | Viewed 313 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:23 pm 
Offline
Victor III
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:43 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Port Huron, MI
Remmotors wrote:
Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy


I am not so sure about that. My early Victor D is serial number 302.
Dave


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:38 am 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Jim S
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Falls Church, Virginia
Dave D wrote:
Remmotors wrote:
Dave and JIm,
It is my understanding that Victor started their serial numbers for each model at 500. That would make your Victor 3 the 383rd one built; indeed very early.
Roy


I am not so sure about that. My early Victor D is serial number 302.
Dave


That would substantiate the earlier statement that External Horn Victors started with serial number 100.
Jim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:31 am 
Offline
Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6179
Location: Albany, Oregon
From the Victor Victrola page...
Quote:
The License Sticker date will also likely not reflect the accurate production date of your Victor or Victrola machine.


I think 1902 is too early when you consider about 50,000 Victor Monarchs in front mount, rigid arm, and rear mount variations were made prior to any Victor 3 (III). I'm away from home and don't have access to my Victor Data book. What is the start date for the Victor III? Don't forget that information such as dates and yearly sales for the Victor III were a combination of Victor Monarch and Victor III data.

When was the Victor Monarch (M) introduced?
When was the rigid arm M sold?
When was the taper arm M sold?
When was the Victor 3 introduced? #883 was shortly after this date. 1902 just seems too early but I'd be happy to be wrong. :) It's a great machine and I'd be proud to own it.

Jerry Blais


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:09 am 
Offline
Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:25 pm
Posts: 6179
Location: Albany, Oregon
Also from the Victor-Victrola Page:

Quote:
1904

Victor introduces the deluxe gold-trimmed Victor VI model, selling for $100 ($1900 in today's money)

Tapering tone arm debuts on certain models



But it also mentions in the 1902 timeline the introduction of the Monarch Special and the Victor III as well as the rigid arm. My best educated guess is that Victor sold the Monarch Special (MS on the ID tag). To give this machine an exclusive sounding title the Victor Advertising Department called it the "Victor the Third." Victor later manufactured (1904?) an actual machine tagged as a Victor 3 which over a brief time became the III.

Jerry B.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:19 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Jim S
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Falls Church, Virginia
JerryB...

Indeed. I don't really care when it was made but figured the combination of low serial number and all the characteristics of the early Vic III's seem to apply and would at least qualify mine as an "Early" model. I guess that will put it somewhere in the 1902 - 1905 range. I understand accurate records of these early external horn models is lacking, so I'm just trying to get it in the ballpark. Looking for the Dog says the III began production in 1902 and I assumed the low 3-digit serial number would put it closer to the earliest days of the III (3). I'd be happy to assume mine as a 1904-ish model.

Thanks for all the feedback.
Jim S.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Victor 3 serial number 883
PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:45 pm 
Offline
Victor Jr
User avatar
Jim S
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:20 pm
Posts: 33
Location: Falls Church, Virginia
I think I'm going to date my Victor "3" as most likely a late 1903 or early 1904 example, even though the serial number is low. Mine has a tapered tone arm which puts it after 1903, and the Exhibition reproducer (which I have) was first introduced in late 1903/early 1904. My Exhibition looks to be a very early model as it has the round needle hole in the needle arm, and the spring locking nuts on the reproducer are round and knurled, not hex nuts. I'm pretty certain that everything on my Vic 3 is original except perhaps the Horn.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], MicaMonster, mick_vt and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Americanized by Maël Soucaze.