G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

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datamath
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G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by datamath »

Hey everyone!!

I have just acquired a beautiful G&T machine. I have three questions around it.

https://youtu.be/5isYbOzdE04

First, the tumbscrew is missing. Which one I should buy?

Second, each time the motor revolves there is a "clicking" sound you may hear on the video. Is this clicking normal? Must I give some kind of maintenance to the motor?

Finally, how many times must I wind the motor for playing a record? I'm afraid to break it.

Thanks!!

José

Edit: fourth question: the sound is a bit dull (I understand this machine is 115 years old), and the elbow between the horn and the reproducer is still the original leather one that is very fragile. Is it possible that getting a new one will make it sound louder?
Which would be a good replacement?

Thanks!

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gramophone-georg
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by gramophone-georg »

Jose: It sounds like the turntable is hitting something underneath it as it spins. See if it stops making the noise without the needle on the record or with the record and turntable removed. When I got mine, it made a rhythmic scraping noise- the bottom of the turntable was rubbing on the governor bracket. Examination of the motor led to the discovery that the small ball bearing the spindle rides on at the bottom was missing. I put one in and not only did it stop the noise- the motor then had plenty of power to play a 10" record.

As far as sound quality goes- this is the limitation of that style reproducer. However- overhauling it may help- and only use "soft tone" needles with electrically recorded records.

If the elbow is stiff and damaged, a reproduction will help.Shine a light at the sewn seam and see if there is any light shining through as you look down the horn.

I made a "gasket" of thin, stick on cork for mine on the end of the horn and reproducer to help it "grab" inside the elbow and seal. If your elbow is old and brittle, though, that will be another reason to get a new one- better sealing.
"He who dies with the most shellac wins"- some nutty record geek

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Curt A
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by Curt A »

First of all... that is a nice machine and in great condition. Second, it is made to play 7"-10" early acoustic records - recorded before 1920, not later electrically recorded 78s like you show in the video. The early records are made out of a shellac that is different in formula from the later 78s and may actually play louder on your machine. The early "concert" reproducer is never going to have great sound quality and rebuilding one is not an easy job for someone who is unfamiliar with them - so don't attempt it yourself. It has to be pressed apart and the mica will most likely need to be replaced when you do that, along with the rubber gaskets and there is a small hairlike wire that attaches the needle bar to the mica that is a pain to re-connect. Also, when it is pressed back together, it is important to line it up exactly as it was originally or the needle angle will be off and that is another problem. So, if you decide to rebuild it, send it to someone who can do that for you - inquire on the Forum for recommendations. Third...The leather elbow can be softened with a product called Black Rock Leather 'n' Rich, which is the best leather treatment product I have ever used. Unless there is a definite hole in the elbow or damage, it would not be a good idea to replace it with a reproduction, since it will de-value your machine to most collectors, or if necessary, definitely don't dispose of the original. Use the Black Rock on the inside and outside liberally, let it sit for awhile, then wipe off the excess... it might take several applications to soften it if it is dry and stiff.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=black+rock+l ... _ss_i_1_10

The actual reality of your machine, is that it is not a machine that will be useful as a daily player, but it is historically interesting and a great display piece... it's like a rare car, which is a "trailer queen" - nice to look at, but you don't drive it. If you want something to play records with on a regular basis, a table top Victrola or Columbia machine would be a much better choice and can be found reasonably...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
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Sidewinder
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by Sidewinder »

Just to add to the excellent points made by Curt.

May be easier to play a record thru if you let the record get up to speed first and then lower the reproducer onto the record.

snallast
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by snallast »

You say "First, the tumbscrew is missing. Which one I should buy?"

To me it sounds like this is the main problem when you´re playing a record. If the needle isn´t fastened properly the machine will sound like in the video - i.e. hardly at all. Getting a thumb screw should not prove too hard? Good luck with your beautiful machine and I second all everyone said before, good advice about the leather elbow too - looks to be in great condition!

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Curt A
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by Curt A »

"Finally, how many times must I wind the motor for playing a record? I'm afraid to break it."
Wind it carefully until you feel resistance, then a little more until it feels "snug" but not until it locks up or the spring breaks... You'll just have to get used to it. Don't force it once it feels fully wound... Also, don't leave it stored in a fully wound position, let it unwind some and then stop it before it unwinds completely... Letting it unwind completely, without having a record playing may allow the spring to detach from the winding shaft, so don't let it run down completely with no record playing. These are just things that you need to think about while playing this and otherwise you just have to get some experience using it... You have an excellent machine, but one that most collectors don't have as a first example, mainly because of its limitations and price.

The thumb screw on the reproducer is important to the sound, as previously stated. I am not familiar with the size of thumb screw necessary for a G&T model machine. However, there are others on the Forum who will have the answer. Post a wanted ad on the Trader section and also make an inquiry on the European machine section. Since it is foreign, it may be a metric size thread that is required. An American thumb screw may not work and might damage the threads in the needle bar... I'm not sure.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
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CarlosV
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by CarlosV »

This is a nice machine, but in my view it is not made to play records, other than for demonstration purposes. It is a very crude design and very unforgiving to records, wearing them significantly every time you play them. I would keep it as much as possible in the condition it came, including the leather elbow. As mentioned above, a reproduction will reduce the value of the machine. It is a great display piece.

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Curt A
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by Curt A »

If you want some Victor 7" records that are from the era that this machine was made to play, Shawn has some for sale: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =9&t=38761
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

gramophone78
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by gramophone78 »

Actually, this UK model would have used G&T 7" records of UK/European origin. I would also strongly recommend NOT putting anything on the leather horn elbow.

As already mentioned, these are not players, but rather more for display. The click sound could either be a crack in the record or possibly a broken tooth in the fiber gear.
G&T 7 Inch Record.JPG

vansteem78
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Re: G&T Machine Assessment and Questions

Post by vansteem78 »

Nice little machine. I have G&T machine too but yours is older style. So nice. It really does sound like the click click click you hear when there is a crack in the record. I can't say though. Spin the turn table without the music or record on it. Then does it make the noise? Neil

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