Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons & Mechanical Restorations

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Victrola-Monkey
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Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons & Mechanical Restorations

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Though both the Borgia II and VE 9-40 have the same features, there are differences seen in the front, under the lids, from the back, and inside from the back. The easiest way to determine which is which when you walk up to one, is that the VE 9-40 has a power-on light at the middle bottom of the cabinet’s front, the Borgia II doesn’t.

I happen to have two Borgia II machines (one with permanent magnet and one with a electro magnetic drivers) and a VE 9-40 (has the electro magnetic driver), as well as two VE 9-40 empty cabinets (one 2-door and one 4-door) and a Borgia “one” empty cabinet. Since I currently have access to the backs of these machines, right now I am focusing there. Both models have the AP-497 amps. It’s interesting that there are differences between the models in the design of the valves (driver type does not seem to matter), the movement mechanism for the loop antennas, and the Radiola 28 components. I plan to replace the bevel gears on the Borgia II valve with the same ones I use on the Type-1 Record Size Selector Gear Assembly Base (Boston Gear Company model’s G485Y-G and G485Y-P). The big flat gear (at least it is suppose to be) on the VE 9-40 is got to be obtained and I’m not sure what to do there. The 4 bevel gears on the VE 9-40 I am hoping the Boston Gear Company’s model G466Y is going to work and they are on order.

See the pictures below:
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Last edited by Victrola-Monkey on Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PeterF
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by PeterF »

I'll be interested to learn what ends up working for the two pairs of gears on the 9-40 antenna rotation linkage, since my originals are bad.

They are not critical, because I only listen to one AM station and can thus manually position the antenna for best reception of that station, and leave it there. But it's nice to have stuff fully restored and operational, of course.

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Victrola-Monkey
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Peter,

I just got the G466Y gears today and they will not do at all. The hub needs to be ½" long and they need to work at 90 degrees from each other. I'm back to searching and will let you know what I find.

-Wayne

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PeterF
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by PeterF »

Wow! ok thanks!!

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Victrola-Monkey
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Peter and anyone else,

I have a good replacement for those pairs of gears in the loop antenna movement mechanics. It's nylon, but it's the best I can do (at least for now). The Boston Gear Company model GP1616Y has the right ⅜" bore, the pair of them works at 90 degrees from each other, and hub is long enough to drill a set screw hole for tapping (it will need to be close to the edge versus centered in the hub to seat in the shaft's set-screw hole). The overall length is short ⅛" short and the diameter is ½" smaller, but this does not matter. Its a workable solution and each gear is very inexpensive. The source for this gear is as follows:

https://www.mrosupply.com/gears-gear-ra ... ston-gear/
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PeterF
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by PeterF »

Good work, Wayne! So a total of four are needed for the 9-40 antenna, and it looks like they’re about $10 each, with free shipping. Sweet!

Have you installed yours yet? With the smaller gear diameter, do you find the antenna will rotate easily? There may be effects of the change, especially with the shortness of the operating lever. Also, does the antenna still move through the full range of rotation? I’m not sure what the range is, but would guess 180 degrees.

Thanks for your persistence in tackling this!

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Victrola-Monkey
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Peter,

You make very good points and no, I have not installed them yet on the VE 9-40. I am to work on my VE 9-55s and 9-25s first, of which only the VE 9-25s use such gears, and I’ll work on that once I make the mold and plastic cast the Arm Gear. But before that, I want to work on the VE 9-55s and will be casting the Arm Gear for these machines very soon. However, I will call Boston Gear Company’s customer service and see if they can suggest a bigger diameter gear that could work.

By the way, I just so happen to have those GP1616Y gears from an earlier attempt to find a less expensive choice than the brass ones for the Type-1 changer’s Record Size Selector Gear Assembly.

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Victrola-Monkey
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Peter,

After thinking about it, the range of the antenna movement should not change since the gears, that are used in pairs, are the same gear and therefore the ratio is 1:1.

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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by EarlH »

Radiola 28's are really curious to operate and listen to. They really aren't too happy with the modern compressed AM signal, but they are very sensitive and LOUD. At least with a dynamic speaker. The one in my Panatrope will pick up San Diego in the winter, from here in Iowa. And the loop position does made a difference of course. You can also run a long wire aerial to the set also, and then the loop position won't make any difference. Other radio sets in the house do not like that Radiola 28 either and if I have another radio on tuned near the same station as the 28 it will really set off the howling and squealing like the old movies would make fun of.

I have a transistor AM transmitter and the Radiola 28 refuses to cooperate it. I also have a tube version of an AM transmitter and it's just fine with that one. But I think it's because the signal is more compressed with the transistor model. I do play mine once in awhile, but they are not a radio you'll listen to very much these days. You'll also find that "Automatic Volume Control" was a good innovation. If you have the volume up to listen to a distant station and forget to turn it down before you try finding something else, you'll definitely get a shock if you go past a loud station! That Panatrope will definitely scare the crap out of you if you do that. Man those things are loud.

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Victrola-Monkey
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Re: Borgia II and VE 9-40 Comparisons

Post by Victrola-Monkey »

Thanks Earl for the Radiola 28 info and experience. I seem to be focused on restoring the mechanics before I tackle the electronics.

Peter and anyone else,

Another forum member was kind enough (much appreciated) to email me the gear model he's used and I have went ahead and ordered them. Its Boston Gear Company's model L112Y. Though they are made of steel, they appear to be perfect except the bore is ½" (versus ⅜"), so a bushing is required. Though both are available at McMaster.com, I ordered only the bushings there and the gears I found over $5 cheaper at MROSupply.com, so I ordered them from there. Here's the links:

https://www.mrosupply.com/gears-gear-ra ... ston-gear/

https://www.mcmaster.com/8491a664

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