Geo. Long console- how rare?

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ironandsteel
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Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by ironandsteel »

I was recently given a "victrola" which was actually made by the Geo. Long cabinet company of Hanover PA. It is a console style with record storage behind the left door and the sound coming out of the right door.
The mechanics are in great shape and it plays well. The cabinet is pretty rough though. The right rear leg is missing, and the left front cabriolet leg is there, but has been broken off and poorly repaired.
I have a complete woodworking shop, and I could take the cabinet apart and replace these broken legs- but I'm wondering if it is worth my time?

How rare and collectible is an off-brand like this, in good shape?

If it is not terribly valuable, I might consider turning it into a table top unit, since it takes up a lot of space on those spindly legs.

emerson
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by emerson »

I believe most people on The Forum will say----if you like it and you have the knowledge to do the work, then what are you waiting for. If you are looking at it from a $ perspective, then that is a question that is hard to answer----maybe a picture of the machine would help, however most collectors go after High-End Brand name machines and not machines that were pieced together with motors, tonearms, and hardware that were purchased from suppliers.----A complete woodworking shop, where are you located, have some machines that need help.

ironandsteel
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by ironandsteel »

I'm in Waterford, Virginia, USA.
I'm trying to understand the origin of a machine like this, and whether off brands are interesting to anybody.

Here is my understanding. It appears that around the time that patents started to expire in the early 1920s, a number of companies sprung up that made all the parts, and a number of furniture companies built their own phonographs using these generic parts. I've been looking through a 1922 issue of "Talking Machine World" and there is no shortage of suppliers for all of the parts, and for cabinets. Geo. A Long is one of the cabinet makers that did this.

I'm sure some of these were good machines and some were not.

I just don't know what to do with this machine. I have a barn full of projects already! I hate the idea of putting hours of work into rebuilding/restoring this thing for no real purpose. I'm not necessarily in it for the $$$, but my heirs will likely be when they sell off my stuff!

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phonogfp
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by phonogfp »

You're pretty much on the right track with your assessment. The Antique Phonograph Society receives dozens of inquiries every year specific to off-brand phonographs. Here's the boilerplate reply, and you may find the link to be helpful:

.......................

Thank you for visiting our website, and for your inquiry.

Your _______________ phonograph falls into the category of what we collectors call "off brands" of the teens and early twenties. Starting around 1916, as many basic patents held by Victor and Columbia were expiring, enterprising businessmen were starting their own talking machine firms. Most of the time, this involved having cabinets made up by a local furniture company or cabinet maker and ordering generic motors, tone arms, and other hardware from one of the several large companies that sprang up at around the same time. These small off brand firms proliferated like weeds in the economic boom of the 1916-1921 period, but most quickly succumbed to the recession of the early 1920s. There's no way of knowing how many of these small operations existed during the period, but research conducted by R.J. Wakeman suggests there were at least 450, and probably many more that couldn't afford to advertise beyond local newspapers. Mr. Wakeman's article on "off-brand" phonographs is on our website in the "Introductory" category:

http://www.antiquephono.org/brand-talki ... j-wakeman/

The good news for owners like you is that your ____________ is undoubtedly a rare brand. In the article I referenced above, it does not appear - thus it is one of the many undocumented small brands of the era.

The bad news is that, among off brands, "rarity is common." There are so many of these off brands - - many undocumented - - that finding an off brand is relatively easy. (Of course, finding a particular off brand can be almost impossible!) Among collectors, there is only marginal interest in off brands unless the machine has something distinctive to offer, such as an unusually ornate or unusually-designed cabinet, unique mechanics, or a strange feature (one off brand used a real conch shell for a horn!).

If you are a new owner, I would highly recommend you read through the Introductory articles on our website (http://www.antiquephono.org/category/introductory/), particularly Basic Antique Phonograph Operational Tips and Collecting Antique Phonographs.
..................................
George P.

estott
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by estott »

Interesting- Long was a good cabinet builder, their record cabinets are fairly common. Value would depend on a few factors: Is this cabinet unusually ornate, or of conspicuously fine quality, does it have any unusual mechanical or acoustic features. These can make a machine interesting, even if they don't add to value.

78recordpicker
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by 78recordpicker »

it would be interesting if there was a site or page where collectors could upload pics and details of their off brand machine, plus serial number (if there is one). with 450+ brands, I often wonder if a single copy of some of them are in a collector's hands

zenith82
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by zenith82 »

I'd keep it intact.

There's a growing number of collectors who are taking interest in the so-called "off brands". I've personally never cared much for the term "off brand", as it tends to have a negative impression. Some off brand phonographs were very good quality in terms of cabinets and mechanics while others were cheaply made. Some collectors, myself included, tend to get bored with Victors, Columbias, and Edisons after a while.

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phonogfp
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by phonogfp »

zenith82 wrote:I'd keep it intact.

There's a growing number of collectors who are taking interest in the so-called "off brands". I've personally never cared much for the term "off brand", as it tends to have a negative impression. Some off brand phonographs were very good quality in terms of cabinets and mechanics while others were cheaply made. Some collectors, myself included, tend to get bored with Victors, Columbias, and Edisons after a while.
I agree. There are certain off-brand machines I like very much such as Kammer & Reinhardt, Echophone, United States Talking Machine, Vitaphone, Star, Zonophone, Yankee Prince, Autophone, Talkophone, Duplex, Rectorphone, Brooks, Shell-O-Phone, etc.

The term "off brand" really shouldn't carry a negative connotation, but I'm open to an alternative word/phrase.

The inexpensive off brands of the teens and 20s are nice starting places for new collectors with limited budgets and lots of enthusiasm.

George P.

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drh
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by drh »

phonogfp wrote:
zenith82 wrote:I'd keep it intact.

There's a growing number of collectors who are taking interest in the so-called "off brands". I've personally never cared much for the term "off brand", as it tends to have a negative impression. Some off brand phonographs were very good quality in terms of cabinets and mechanics while others were cheaply made. Some collectors, myself included, tend to get bored with Victors, Columbias, and Edisons after a while.
I agree. There are certain off-brand machines I like very much such as Kammer & Reinhardt, Echophone, United States Talking Machine, Vitaphone, Star, Zonophone, Yankee Prince, Autophone, Talkophone, Duplex, Rectorphone, Brooks, Shell-O-Phone, etc.

The term "off brand" really shouldn't carry a negative connotation, but I'm open to an alternative word/phrase.

The inexpensive off brands of the teens and 20s are nice starting places for new collectors with limited budgets and lots of enthusiasm.

George P.
I agree; it would be sad to cut up a machine that has lived this long.

Rather than "off brand," how about something like "minor brand"? Or, taking a cue from the world of pianos, "stencil brand"?

emerson
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Re: Geo. Long console- how rare?

Post by emerson »

NO, Don't cut the legs off-----BAD. Bring it back to what it should be----since you have the knowledge to do so. You will feel more better for the accomplishment of achieving it back to it's original design then you would by taking the easier way and just "chopping it down" ----so lets see some before and after pictures of your craftsmanship.

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