Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

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Jonsheff
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Jonsheff »

Yea, i know there are a lot of collectors who prefer original 1912 finishes and greases but really after sanding all the scratches out i really dont think the veneer would take another refinishing without sanding thru. I have seen to many Victrolas with clear coats that have failed for one reason or another. I do know that in 100 years the poly i am using wont be black and aligatored like so many original shellac finished Victrolas are. For anyone who has done a complete strip down and kmows the amoumt of work to get a perfect finish might appreciate wanting to protect it with the best modern and durable finish available. So far, no one who has bought my refinished rebuilds has complained that the finish is not shellac or the grease is synthetic. I am basically fixing the two problems with the original machines, clear coat and lubrication failure. If you restored a car from 1913 would you use the paint and oil they used then?

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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by VanEpsFan1914 »

" I am basically fixing the two problems with the original machines, clear coat and lubrication failure. If you restored a car from 1913 would you use the paint and oil they used then?"

No, regarding grease. That's not the question. I use synthetic oils to preserve the motors and keep from having to open Pandora's mechanical box.

Yes, regarding finish. Here's why.

Houses are different than they were in 1915. We no longer, in general:

Use smoky oil lamps and stoves
Smoke tobacco constantly
Leave the windows open in midwinter with the furnace up full blast (prevents Spanish Flu, they say)
Park phonographs in attics for fifty years
Leave phonograph where birds can crap on them
Have the maid coat everything with nasty tinted waxes once a month
Put phonographs in humid or dry conditions (AC is a lifesaver)
Leave phonographs on the front porch for the summer
Forget about them until next summer

And other things too numerous to mention. Modern lubricants tend to be kinder to the motors than the original, not having a tendency to gum or go rancid. (Animal fat, yay!) But a vintage finish is not automatically prone to going bad, it's the way it's kept.

In 100 years polyurethane will still have that fresh, still-wet luster like the baseboards of the men's room. Vintage type finishes, in the age of climate control, have a far better chance of lasting because they don't start out looking sub-par.

Regarding the thinning veneer, I think you're doing it wrong. The older machines don't need to be SANDED to strip. You're probably better off chemically stripping, which is easier than it sounds. I am completely refinishing a 1909 Edison Fireside right now with denatured alcohol. The old finish comes right off. Sanding is, honestly, what vapid housewives with a headful of Pinterest and B.S. do before they throw on the latex paint.

Also, eBay customers tend to not be the most knowledgeable about phonograph condition and valuation. Remember, for every nice machine you sell, there's someone bidding on jarred beer farts (no lie!) because this is the internet and everything that rises will converge.

Just a few thoughts, nothing personal but this is how I roll.

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Curt A
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Curt A »

What Charles said...
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by zenith82 »

The only time I do any real sanding at all on an antique piece is if it has suffered some kind of trauma, then it's hand sanding with a sponge or small block only to the affected area. Power sanders should not go near antique cabinets, especially veneered pieces. I'll rub out a new shellac finish to smooth it, but I consider that different from sanding. To achieve coloring, I'll add dyes to shellac rather than use an oil-based stain, as these products didn't exist until a few decades after the acoustic phonograph era.

Shellac was the mainstream finish of choice up through the late 1920s, when advances in spray equipment made the use of nitrocellulose lacquer more cost effective. Lacquer was then the finish of choice up to the mid 1950s, when urethanes took over. To collectors and those who have a true appreciation of antiques, polyurethane on anything produced before the mid to late 1950s sticks out like a sore thumb.

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Jonsheff
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Jonsheff »

I think you are missing the point, first I am in the furniture restoration business and have been for 25 year - New England Office Furniture. I am not a collector, I do have a restored XVII that i keep at home but that's it. I buy Victrolas that are most likely destined for the land fill, restore them and find them a new home. Simply rubbing them with alcohol to restore the finish is typically not an option. If I was buying them with even a half good finish I wouldn't be stripping and sanding (I do use stripper and also sand as described above). Since the buyers are typically not collectors, there is no way to know how they will take care of them or if they aren't going to end up back in the basement after the novelty wears off. The 1918 XVI shown above was in the condition shown below, with hammer dings on the side and back, missing front doors, a complete wreck. Someone else had started sanding and lost parts before I purchased it. No way would not sanding make the final product look like the above picture. As I said, I have been doing furniture professionally for a long time and although I dont know everything about restoring antiques, I certainly have done enough to have a pretty good idea of what works best.
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by OrthoFan »

Curt A wrote:
The main problem with poly, is that in the future if anything needs to be repaired or restored, it is an almost impossible job to remove it.
I'm wondering if you've ever tried this method -- https://www.hunker.com/13401253/how-to- ... ping-stain

I've never tried it, myself, but I first heard about it from an antiques shop owner in San Francisco and he swears by it.

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Benjamin_L
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Benjamin_L »

It's a nice little machine, the leg shouldn't be too hard to fix. I really like piano company cabinets like Kimball or Aeolian.

I want to agree with everyone on not using Poly.
Last edited by Benjamin_L on Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jonsheff
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Jonsheff »

The finish on the Newby is still immaculate, i had it well protected for shipping. I think the leg will just need refinishing. I will post before and after pics. As for the shipper, gross megligence and incompetance. It was my first and last time using them. They wouldnt even refund the $350 shipping charge much less pay my claim. They have a hidden clause that if sold on ebay, amazon etc, they are exempt. That info is not available when booking shipments. Old Dominion Freight? I would not recommend.
As for poly vs shellac? You already know my thoughts on that so yes, lets agree to disagree.

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Jonsheff
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Jonsheff »

OrthoFan wrote:
Curt A wrote:
The main problem with poly, is that in the future if anything needs to be repaired or restored, it is an almost impossible job to remove it.
I'm wondering if you've ever tried this method -- https://www.hunker.com/13401253/how-to- ... ping-stain

I've never tried it, myself, but I first heard about it from an antiques shop owner in San Francisco and he swears by it.

OrthoFan
Thanks for the link, that may come in handy some day and possibly for the Newby repair. I typically sand off poly with 400 grit and when close to the stain coat hand sand to remove the rest. The reason i use poly is that it wont need to be refinished again, hopefully ever. If scratched a scuff & spray will make like new again or just buffing. I do use dewaxed shellac for the first seal coat.

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Curt A
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Re: Does anyone have a Newby & Evans phonograph?

Post by Curt A »

OrthoFan wrote:
Curt A wrote: The main problem with poly, is that in the future if anything needs to be repaired or restored, it is an almost impossible job to remove it.
I'm wondering if you've ever tried this method -- https://www.hunker.com/13401253/how-to- ... ping-stain
I've never tried it, myself, but I first heard about it from an antiques shop owner in San Francisco and he swears by it.
OrthoFan
I have never heard of this method, but I am going to try it... I have a lid that is coated with some type of poly that I have been unable to remove, so we'll see how it works.
"The phonograph† is not of any commercial value."
Thomas Alva Edison - Comment to his assistant, Samuel Insull.

"No one needs a Victrola XX, a Perfected Graphophone Type G, or whatever you call those noisy things."
My Wife

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