Are VE electric XVI Victrolas worth buying?

[startgroove]

As a collector of both machines and music, we want at lease one electric powered machine on hand (we actually have several). We like to listen to the records we've collected, and the convenience of not having to crank each time a record is changed saves us a little time and improves the listening experience.

[Victrolacollector]

I have a VV-XVI L-Door and it is a beauty, it is now my most played disc machine. I bought thhe cabinet from a guy from South Bend on the forum and with the help of another forum member, obtained the motor etc. to complete it. As far as an electric model, they seem cool. I would think they are probably about the same value as a spring powered model. I recommend a rebuild of the reproducer and clean up on the motor, you will need a new cloth cord which could be ordered from sundial wire or radio daze.

I am not sure on this, but from what I heard that some of these are DC current and were sold and used for some of those homes that had DC current up in the eastern states. Maybe one of our other forum members as can chime in on this.

[52089]

I have an opportunity to get a 1913 VE-XVI Victrola with an electric motor. I have been buying, restoring and reselling only the VV crank type but was wondering if this electric version would be resellable. The strange thing is that according to the Victor Victrola website the electric type were first offered in December 1913 and this on is dated August 1913.
Are the electric types collectable? Same value as the crank type?

You seem to be asking the question primarily for resale purposes. I can only speak for myself of course but IMHO electric machines are a bit tougher to sell than crank machines. Part of this is that there are good guides out there for restoring and maintaining mechanical machines (e.g., "The Compleat Talking Machine"), but I'm not aware of a good guide for electric machines. I think some collectors are a bit afraid to work on electric machines for fear of shock, short circuit, etc. I myself would be leery of buying an unrestored electric machine. On the other hand, I would not hesitate to buy a restored electric machine from many of the members of this forum.

[Victrolacollector]

I have an opportunity to get a 1913 VE-XVI Victrola with an electric motor. I have been buying, restoring and reselling only the VV crank type but was wondering if this electric version would be resellable. The strange thing is that according to the Victor Victrola website the electric type were first offered in December 1913 and this on is dated August 1913.
Are the electric types collectable? Same value as the crank type?

You seem to be asking the question primarily for resale purposes. I can only speak for myself of course but IMHO electric machines are a bit tougher to sell than crank machines. Part of this is that there are good guides out there for restoring and maintaining mechanical machines (e.g., "The Compleat Talking Machine"), but I'm not aware of a good guide for electric machines. I think some collectors are a bit afraid to work on electric machines for fear of shock, short circuit, etc. I myself would be leery of buying an unrestored electric machine. On the other hand, I would not hesitate to buy a restored electric machine from many of the members of this forum.

I have to agree, a lot more resources and safer to work on a spring powered machine. I would also have fears about buying a unrestored machine that is just out in the wild. I honestly do not understand electrical stuff and would fear of shock, electrocution or burning the place down. That is one reason that I don’t have many antique radios and the ones that I do have, have spent a mint having someone restore them. In my honest opinion, in an ideal market, good restored spring model VV-XVI would go for $ 800.00 tops and that’s pushing it. Realistically, your probably looking at 350-500 restored, and that is allowing some market time. If the machine is in a Circassian walnut or some other more rarer and sought after wood, then the machine may command a higher price.

Some may agree or disagree, but many models that used to sell for two or three times as much are now selling for less.
Rarity, desire for a particular model, condition, wood type and location are all factors. Search eBay sold listings and you will see many machines that have sold for less than high end market value.

[Benjamin_L]

I'd make sure it's the original electric motor. (It was common for people in the 30s-50s to come back and put electric motors in them.)

[Curt A]

The biggest problems with electric machines are the motors, switches and original wiring. I have restored a non-working Fairy Phonograph Lamp and believe me when I say it is hard to find someone to restore a motor if it needs rewinding. Mine did need rewinding and after searching, I got quotes from $450 to $900 to rewind the motor. The mechanical switches were extremely crude and needed to be replaced, but finding one to fit was a challenge. I would never trust original wiring in any antique electrical appliance, mainly because over time these wires have a tendency to corrode and also get brittle. Whatever they used for wire back then is not the same as modern wire and consequently we have significantly fewer house fires due to faulty wiring. Any restoration of electrical machines should definitely include rewiring with modern cloth covered wire...

[Victrolacollector]

The biggest problems with electric machines are the motors, switches and original wiring. I have restored a non-working Fairy Phonograph Lamp and believe me when I say it is hard to find someone to restore a motor if it needs rewinding. Mine did need rewinding and after searching, I got quotes from $450 to $900 to rewind the motor. The mechanical switches were extremely crude and needed to be replaced, but finding one to fit was a challenge. I would never trust original wiring in any antique electrical appliance, mainly because over time these wires have a tendency to corrode and also get brittle. Whatever they used for wire back then is not the same as modern wire and consequently we have significantly fewer house fires due to faulty wiring. Any restoration of electrical machines should definitely include rewiring with modern cloth covered wire...

Agreed! You are correct, the old wire covering is often brittle with pieces that tend to crack or fall off with bare wiring exposed. You often see this in old radios as well. Switches can be a nightmare, and the old used replacements are often faulty. I experienced that with my Radiola 18, the switch worked great and one day I plugged it in and the switch was open in both positions, even when off. These kinds of things can be dangerous! Like Curt mentioned, winding a motor is expensive, not everyone can do this. Some motors have setups with capacitors and resistors etc., and these can become leaky or just way out of tolerance. Many times these old turntable motors can become very hot in a matter of minutes. Plugging any of these electrical units into the wall does not only pose a fire hazard, but damage to the motor. Repair people usually use a variac to slowly bring up the power. Replacing all this stuff is best left to the pros.

[PeterF]

So funny - in my own case I will happily and fearlessly mess with old wiring all day, but opening a spring barrel utterly terrifies me. Common sense stuff like close physical inspection of wiring, components, and connections, and use of an ohmmeter to check continuity (both wanted and unwanted) before applying power is really all you need for safety. And if still scared, try wearing gloves and using tools with handles, and not touching metal bits with bare hands.

The mental image of a spring erupting uncontrolled, lashing out and slashing limbs and face and crippling fingers, lacerating eyes - and all this while splatting grease onto everything it touches - is far worse to me than getting a little shock or frying a winding!

Plus, as I've said before, I hate winding phonographs.

Original poster wants to resell, it seems, and the "romantic" cranking will attract far more potential buyers though.

[Victrolacollector]

So funny - in my own case I will happily and fearlessly mess with old wiring all day, but opening a spring barrel utterly terrifies me. Common sense stuff like close physical inspection of wiring, components, and connections, and use of an ohmmeter to check continuity (both wanted and unwanted) before applying power is really all you need for safety. And if still scared, try wearing gloves and using tools with handles, and not touching metal bits with bare hands.

The mental image of a spring erupting uncontrolled, lashing out and slashing limbs and face and crippling fingers, lacerating eyes - and all this while splatting grease onto everything it touches - is far worse to me than getting a little shock or frying a winding!

Plus, as I've said before, I hate winding phonographs.

Original poster wants to resell, it seems, and the "romantic" cranking will attract far more potential buyers though.

Good point, I am also afraid to do a mainspring repair, that why I end up sending out the barrel. Got to watch those gears though, they can bring your fingers in and smash, or make a nice greasy gear stain on the shirt.

[zenith82]

Fortunately, it's not very often you run into an electric motor that needs re-winding unless the machine has been horribly abused. In the case of a VE-XVI, it may be cheaper in the long run to find another with a trashed cabinet and swap the motors out versus having it re-wound. I had a wringer washing machine motor re-winding quoted at $250 a few years ago. I picked up another motor like it for $20 at an auction. A lot of switches can be cleaned and repaired. If something happens one needs replacing, they can usually be found with patience. Most manufacturers didn't use switches that were unique to their products. They ordered them from Bryant, GE, AH&H, or one of the other electrical suppliers.

The VE-XVI is relatively simple in terms of wiring. Power cords are easy enough to replace if they are in bad shape, though the original on my VE-XVI is still in very good condition. The same with wiring. If the insulation is damaged or shows signs of overheating, replacement is easy as long as you keep track of where it goes and where it comes from.

Old wiring in good condition is no less safe than modern wire. In fact, the quality is likely better than wire you buy today, which is probably made with copper that has been recycled several times. Most fires in the old days had nothing to do with the quality of the wiring - people had a tendency to overload circuits. People would do stupid things like have a 15 amp circuit drawing 30 amps, complete with a penny stuck behind a blown fuse in a socket. After a while, the wire would heat to the point to where it would ignite the wood or insulation around it and, voila, fire. Most houses built before the late 1920s originally only had 30 amp electrical service for the whole house. By 1930, people started adding more electric appliances, but often did not upgrade their service to match the load they were now pulling. That was a recipe for disaster.