Acoustic Phonograph for Playing Electric Recordings

[VictorVV-X]

Hello all,

Up until now, I have collected phonographs that should only play acoustic recordings, but considering that that I also have a substantial number of electrical recordings, I have been thinking of finding a phonograph that was meant to play such records. I know of the Victor Orthophonic, Columbia Viva-tonal, and the Brunswick Panatrope, and wanted to know what you all recommend?
I know this has a lot to do with personal preference, but I thought I would ask and see what you all think.

Thanks in advance.

Gerald.

[JerryVan]

I have a Brunswick Cortez, (Panatrope), which I love, but for every day listening, I couldn't do without my Orthophonic Credenza. (I've never heard a viva-tonal play "in person".)

[VictorVV-X]

I have a Brunswick Cortez, (Panatrope), which I love, but for every day listening, I couldn't do without my Orthophonic Credenza. (I've never heard a viva-tonal play "in person".)

JerryVan,

Thank you for your recommendation! I greatly appreciate it!

[VanEpsFan1914]

I have had one portable of each "big three" maker: a Panatrope P-109 by Brunswick, an Orthophonic 2-65 Victor Victrola, and currently a Viva-Tonal 202 Grafonola.


The Orthophonic Victrola is a nice machine all round, but be careful not to lose the slotted crank. It had a fiberboard top and horn (in the 2-65 model; a 2-55 is, I believe, all metal.) This probably would have sounded great had my example not been nearly destroyed by time & humidity. Mine played OK. They are carefully made but if the brake mechanism goes bad then you will be out of luck until you can find some little springs for it. In good condition--and I stress condition--it would be a good piece to listen to records on if you're not so worried about build quality. I don't think they were intended to last this many long years. Be sure the tone arm bracket hasn't decayed as they are pot-metal, but by 1929-1930 of good quality. Oh, and if you're playing acoustics on it, forget it. They sound horrible on Orthophonics. An XIV upright with Exhibition box can outperform if you're playing acoustics. And the needle cup doesn't have a lid, which sucks majorly. The automatic starter is nice, though--if it works.

The Panatrope has a big metal horn and is LOUD. Bass, thunderous volume, impressive presence. It has a superb silent motor and is a mostly metal construction that weighs a ton. The crank fishes through a hole in the horn but this doesn't seem to impede the sound much. It has a manual-set autobrake that is absolutely grand and is a potent and reliable player for all types of record--acoustic & electric. The only drawbacks are the incredible volume, if you like peace & quiet, and the fact that the Panatrope reproducers are so prone to pot-metal decay that you might have to get fancy with repairing to make them play. I had one with the back retainer ring replaced by silicone plumbers' caulk and it sounded wonderful for all the time I owned it.

The Viva-Tonal is a great machine. I'm using one now, and they're pretty nice quality. The wooden parts are much appreciated after watching the Orthophonic crumble and the No. 9 reproducer combined with a Plano-Reflex arm is a great playing setup for acoustic or electrical discs. There is enough presence to make it sound pleasant--I think the Panatrope could blast past it but I haven't tried it with loud needles and don't want to. The horn is a reflexive type that echoes off its own insides, and it's very fun to listen to as it sounds realistic--almost like an old 1930s tube radio. You will want to make sure the tonearm elbow joint is not cracked or breaking. The tonearm on the Model 202 is activated by the lid and lifting the lid picks the tonearm up from the horn opening like the old Wurlitzer pipe organ rising from the orchestra-pit before the picture show. Oh, and you'll never lose the crank; it's threaded to the front of the motor and folds up into a hole in the case. It's good British engineering. Motor is a Garrard so it rarely needs repairing and cannot be heard while it runs.

I would say--

Panatrope if you can get it, so you can pump the bass all day long and get six-pack abs from toting it,
Viva-Tonal if you can't, but want a potent, steel-horned player with excellent build quality,
Victrola Orthophonic if you either find a pristine example, think they look cool (they do) or want to root for good old VTMCo.

Or if you have room buy examples of all three.

[VictorVV-X]

I have had one portable of each "big three" maker: a Panatrope P-109 by Brunswick, an Orthophonic 2-65 Victor Victrola, and currently a Viva-Tonal 202 Grafonola.


The Orthophonic Victrola is a nice machine all round, but be careful not to lose the slotted crank. It had a fiberboard top and horn (in the 2-65 model; a 2-55 is, I believe, all metal.) This probably would have sounded great had my example not been nearly destroyed by time & humidity. Mine played OK. They are carefully made but if the brake mechanism goes bad then you will be out of luck until you can find some little springs for it. In good condition--and I stress condition--it would be a good piece to listen to records on if you're not so worried about build quality. I don't think they were intended to last this many long years. Be sure the tone arm bracket hasn't decayed as they are pot-metal, but by 1929-1930 of good quality. Oh, and if you're playing acoustics on it, forget it. They sound horrible on Orthophonics. An XIV upright with Exhibition box can outperform if you're playing acoustics. And the needle cup doesn't have a lid, which sucks majorly. The automatic starter is nice, though--if it works.

The Panatrope has a big metal horn and is LOUD. Bass, thunderous volume, impressive presence. It has a superb silent motor and is a mostly metal construction that weighs a ton. The crank fishes through a hole in the horn but this doesn't seem to impede the sound much. It has a manual-set autobrake that is absolutely grand and is a potent and reliable player for all types of record--acoustic & electric. The only drawbacks are the incredible volume, if you like peace & quiet, and the fact that the Panatrope reproducers are so prone to pot-metal decay that you might have to get fancy with repairing to make them play. I had one with the back retainer ring replaced by silicone plumbers' caulk and it sounded wonderful for all the time I owned it.

The Viva-Tonal is a great machine. I'm using one now, and they're pretty nice quality. The wooden parts are much appreciated after watching the Orthophonic crumble and the No. 9 reproducer combined with a Plano-Reflex arm is a great playing setup for acoustic or electrical discs. There is enough presence to make it sound pleasant--I think the Panatrope could blast past it but I haven't tried it with loud needles and don't want to. The horn is a reflexive type that echoes off its own insides, and it's very fun to listen to as it sounds realistic--almost like an old 1930s tube radio. You will want to make sure the tonearm elbow joint is not cracked or breaking. The tonearm on the Model 202 is activated by the lid and lifting the lid picks the tonearm up from the horn opening like the old Wurlitzer pipe organ rising from the orchestra-pit before the picture show. Oh, and you'll never lose the crank; it's threaded to the front of the motor and folds up into a hole in the case. It's good British engineering. Motor is a Garrard so it rarely needs repairing and cannot be heard while it runs.

I would say--

Panatrope if you can get it, so you can pump the bass all day long and get six-pack abs from toting it,
Viva-Tonal if you can't, but want a potent, steel-horned player with excellent build quality,
Victrola Orthophonic if you either find a pristine example, think they look cool (they do) or want to root for good old VTMCo.

Or if you have room buy examples of all three.

VanEpsFan1914,

Thank you for your help! I greatly appreciate it! It has given me something to think about.

[Uncle Vanya]

I have had one portable of each "big three" maker: a Panatrope P-109 by Brunswick, an Orthophonic 2-65 Victor Victrola, and currently a Viva-Tonal 202 Grafonola.


The Orthophonic Victrola is a nice machine all round, but be careful not to lose the slotted crank. It had a fiberboard top and horn (in the 2-65 model; a 2-55 is, I believe, all metal.) This probably would have sounded great had my example not been nearly destroyed by time & humidity. Mine played OK. They are carefully made but if the brake mechanism goes bad then you will be out of luck until you can find some little springs for it. In good condition--and I stress condition--it would be a good piece to listen to records on if you're not so worried about build quality. I don't think they were intended to last this many long years. Be sure the tone arm bracket hasn't decayed as they are pot-metal, but by 1929-1930 of good quality. Oh, and if you're playing acoustics on it, forget it. They sound horrible on Orthophonics. An XIV upright with Exhibition box can outperform if you're playing acoustics. And the needle cup doesn't have a lid, which sucks majorly. The automatic starter is nice, though--if it works.

The Panatrope has a big metal horn and is LOUD. Bass, thunderous volume, impressive presence. It has a superb silent motor and is a mostly metal construction that weighs a ton. The crank fishes through a hole in the horn but this doesn't seem to impede the sound much. It has a manual-set autobrake that is absolutely grand and is a potent and reliable player for all types of record--acoustic & electric. The only drawbacks are the incredible volume, if you like peace & quiet, and the fact that the Panatrope reproducers are so prone to pot-metal decay that you might have to get fancy with repairing to make them play. I had one with the back retainer ring replaced by silicone plumbers' caulk and it sounded wonderful for all the time I owned it.

The Viva-Tonal is a great machine. I'm using one now, and they're pretty nice quality. The wooden parts are much appreciated after watching the Orthophonic crumble and the No. 9 reproducer combined with a Plano-Reflex arm is a great playing setup for acoustic or electrical discs. There is enough presence to make it sound pleasant--I think the Panatrope could blast past it but I haven't tried it with loud needles and don't want to. The horn is a reflexive type that echoes off its own insides, and it's very fun to listen to as it sounds realistic--almost like an old 1930s tube radio. You will want to make sure the tonearm elbow joint is not cracked or breaking. The tonearm on the Model 202 is activated by the lid and lifting the lid picks the tonearm up from the horn opening like the old Wurlitzer pipe organ rising from the orchestra-pit before the picture show. Oh, and you'll never lose the crank; it's threaded to the front of the motor and folds up into a hole in the case. It's good British engineering. Motor is a Garrard so it rarely needs repairing and cannot be heard while it runs.

I would say--

Panatrope if you can get it, so you can pump the bass all day long and get six-pack abs from toting it,
Viva-Tonal if you can't, but want a potent, steel-horned player with excellent build quality,
Victrola Orthophonic if you either find a pristine example, think they look cool (they do) or want to root for good old VTMCo.

Or if you have room buy examples of all three.

VanEpsFan1914,

Thank you for your help! I greatly appreciate it! It has given me something to think about.

In the cabinet machines both the Viva-Tonal and (to am
Much lesser extent) the Exponential Panatropes tend to wear records more heavily that does an Orthophonic in good condition. Small to medium sized Orthophonic machines may be had in almost any area of the country for modest prices. A good machine to look for would be the 4-40. These machines are extremely common (over 100,000 made), they play very well when sorted out, and they are attractive pieces of furniture. The overhang support for the tone arm will probably need to be replaced, and the metal horn condiit sealed with silicone or butyl rubber, and the reproducer rebuilt, but when finished their machine will play even late records well with minimal wear. The late Folded Horn Granada (the immediate predecessor of the 4-40) is a close second. Hold out for a machine with a really excellent cabinet. These models are quite common enough so that a worn example is off no interest save as a parts donor.

[VictorVV-X]

I have had one portable of each "big three" maker: a Panatrope P-109 by Brunswick, an Orthophonic 2-65 Victor Victrola, and currently a Viva-Tonal 202 Grafonola.


The Orthophonic Victrola is a nice machine all round, but be careful not to lose the slotted crank. It had a fiberboard top and horn (in the 2-65 model; a 2-55 is, I believe, all metal.) This probably would have sounded great had my example not been nearly destroyed by time & humidity. Mine played OK. They are carefully made but if the brake mechanism goes bad then you will be out of luck until you can find some little springs for it. In good condition--and I stress condition--it would be a good piece to listen to records on if you're not so worried about build quality. I don't think they were intended to last this many long years. Be sure the tone arm bracket hasn't decayed as they are pot-metal, but by 1929-1930 of good quality. Oh, and if you're playing acoustics on it, forget it. They sound horrible on Orthophonics. An XIV upright with Exhibition box can outperform if you're playing acoustics. And the needle cup doesn't have a lid, which sucks majorly. The automatic starter is nice, though--if it works.

The Panatrope has a big metal horn and is LOUD. Bass, thunderous volume, impressive presence. It has a superb silent motor and is a mostly metal construction that weighs a ton. The crank fishes through a hole in the horn but this doesn't seem to impede the sound much. It has a manual-set autobrake that is absolutely grand and is a potent and reliable player for all types of record--acoustic & electric. The only drawbacks are the incredible volume, if you like peace & quiet, and the fact that the Panatrope reproducers are so prone to pot-metal decay that you might have to get fancy with repairing to make them play. I had one with the back retainer ring replaced by silicone plumbers' caulk and it sounded wonderful for all the time I owned it.

The Viva-Tonal is a great machine. I'm using one now, and they're pretty nice quality. The wooden parts are much appreciated after watching the Orthophonic crumble and the No. 9 reproducer combined with a Plano-Reflex arm is a great playing setup for acoustic or electrical discs. There is enough presence to make it sound pleasant--I think the Panatrope could blast past it but I haven't tried it with loud needles and don't want to. The horn is a reflexive type that echoes off its own insides, and it's very fun to listen to as it sounds realistic--almost like an old 1930s tube radio. You will want to make sure the tonearm elbow joint is not cracked or breaking. The tonearm on the Model 202 is activated by the lid and lifting the lid picks the tonearm up from the horn opening like the old Wurlitzer pipe organ rising from the orchestra-pit before the picture show. Oh, and you'll never lose the crank; it's threaded to the front of the motor and folds up into a hole in the case. It's good British engineering. Motor is a Garrard so it rarely needs repairing and cannot be heard while it runs.

I would say--

Panatrope if you can get it, so you can pump the bass all day long and get six-pack abs from toting it,
Viva-Tonal if you can't, but want a potent, steel-horned player with excellent build quality,
Victrola Orthophonic if you either find a pristine example, think they look cool (they do) or want to root for good old VTMCo.

Or if you have room buy examples of all three.

VanEpsFan1914,

Thank you for your help! I greatly appreciate it! It has given me something to think about.

In the cabinet machines both the Viva-Tonal and (to am
Much lesser extent) the Exponential Panatropes tend to wear records more heavily that does an Orthophonic in good condition. Small to medium sized Orthophonic machines may be had in almost any area of the country for modest prices. A good machine to look for would be the 4-40. These machines are extremely common (over 100,000 made), they play very well when sorted out, and they are attractive pieces of furniture. The overhang support for the tone arm will probably need to be replaced, and the metal horn condiit sealed with silicone or butyl rubber, and the reproducer rebuilt, but when finished their machine will play even late records well with minimal wear. The late Folded Horn Granada (the immediate predecessor of the 4-40) is a close second. Hold out for a machine with a really excellent cabinet. These models are quite common enough so that a worn example is off no interest save as a parts donor.

Uncle Vanya,
Thank you for your help. I have been looking into few different machines. A couple each of Orthophonic and Panatropes. The Orthophonics I've inquired about include a VV 4-4, a 4-7, and an 8-4. At present the 8-4 appeals to me the most, due to it being closest to where I live and I just like it in general. The second is the VV 4-4 that is only $100, but is quite far from me but is said to work. I'll post some pictures of the 4-4 and 8-4.
The 8-4 is more expensive and is also unknown condition overall, but I like it. I suppose if I could buy it right I would take a chance.

Thanks again for your help. I greatly appreciate it!

[VictorVV-X]

This is the VV 4-4 for $100.

[VictorVV-X]

Here is the 8-4. The seller told me they bought it four years ago and does not believe they ever tried using it. They're asking $300, which sounds high to me.

[OrthoSean]

That's certainly reasonable for the 4-4. looks like it would clean up nicely. If I had to choose from your list of inquiries, I'd be after the 8-4. Nice machines, large, yes, but they sound REALLY nice without being the size of a Credenza if space is a concern. I think you'd be far happier with it for sound, plus I like the 8-4's looks in general. At $300, I don't know that you're getting ripped off, mine was in the neighborhood of $250 and it needed a great deal of cleaning up, so I can't say $300 is terrible depending on everything else. The 4-4 takes up a larger footprint with a smaller horn, so IMO it would be a no-brainer.

Keep in mind I'm an orthophonic obsessive, so I AM a little biased

I own a Cortez, a VT 810 and several orthophonics of "larger" size up to the 10-50 and they're all space hogs, but I certainly do enjoy each one for it's own qualities.

Good luck!

Sean