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 Post subject: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:33 pm 
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Victor II
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Martin - 16 y/o
Joined: Mon May 07, 2018 6:27 pm
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I have a cygnet horn that I will soon be repainting. I have a method for wood graining to look authentically like quarter sawn oak, but it does leave a slight texture with the current method. Were the original wood grain cygnets perfectly smooth? I wonder if doing multiple clear coats would smooth it out. Any input would be a appreciated, and ik wondering if anyone else here has tried to do it themselves.

Thanks
Martin


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:42 pm 
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Victor V
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:54 pm
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My Edison wood grain cygnet is smooth to the touch. Since you're repainting yours anyway, make it whatever works for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Victor Monarch Special
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I don't disagree with 52089 but by the very nature of creating a wood grained finish you have layers which would not be as smooth as a single color finish. So I'd suggest a wood grained finish would be reasonably smooth but not as smooth as a black painted horn. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here but mean no harm. :)

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 10:54 pm 
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Victor IV
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2009 12:53 pm
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Location: Michiana
The original grained horn bells were lithographed nwith the wood grain pattern when they were flat. The lithographed steel was then fabricated into the horn bells.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 1:10 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
Stop for a visit when in Oregon.
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Quote:
The original grained horn bells were lithographed nwith the wood grain pattern when they were flat. The lithographed steel was then fabricated into the horn bells.


Thanks, I learned something today! :)

Jerry B.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:18 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Who is John Galt?
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Uncle Vanya wrote:
The original grained horn bells were lithographed nwith the wood grain pattern when they were flat. The lithographed steel was then fabricated into the horn bells.


I found this a fascinating bit of information. It makes perfect sense, too. But when I checked mine, I found no evidence of lithography; each panel is differently executed. And why wouldn't the Cygnet stems have nice lithography rather than the comparatively crude brushwork?

George P.
Attachment:
Cygnet3.JPG
Cygnet3.JPG [ 1.62 MiB | Viewed 363 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 9:55 am 
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Victor VI
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Respectfully, having worked in the metal fabrication industry for many years (machining, shearing, punching, press-brake forming, and rolling), and having formed many sheet steel parts into cones, cylinders, box shapes, etc., I can't imagine any scenario in which pre-finished components would NOT result in serious damage to the finish.

At the very least the parts would end up being seriously marred, and at the very worst the finish would be completely destroyed. That includes plating, anodizing, etc.

I honestly can't imagine any reason to pre-finish anything before forming it into any given shape. I'm not saying it couldn't be done (possibly) with very specialized equipment, but in a high-production facility, it certainly wouldn't make much sense to finish parts before forming. Otherwise everything would get finished twice: first for the pre-forming finish, and 2nd for extensive post-forming touch-up.

I would never have done it that way.

Best regards,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:22 am 
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Victor Monarch Special
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Location: New York's Finger Lakes
A number of toy train manufacturers in the early 20th century (e.g., Bing in Germany, Ives and American Flyer in the U.S.) made extensive use of lithography on freight/passenger cars, as well as stations. These pieces were then bent into shape, and oftentimes tabbed. However, I can't think of an instance where lithographed toy train components were crimped together, as in the sections of a polygonal phonograph horn. The train lithography was also on one side only. Of course, these toy companies had the specialized machinery to do this work.

The Tea Tray Company and the Standard Metal Manufacturing Company (as well as smaller competitors) made extensive use of artists. Tea Tray in particular mocked Hawthorne & Sheble's use of applied floral decoration. But just imagine the fabulous designs that lithographed horns could have displayed! If the wood-grained Edison Cygnets were lithographed, why would the process have been limited only to wood grain?

Fascinating thread...!

George P.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:39 am 
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Victor VI
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I wonder: were those small thin steel parts hand formed over a leather mold/die/mandrel, etc., maybe? I can see that, along with wood and leather tools.

It is fascinating! I'd bet some old pre 20th century fabricator/machinist books would illustrate the various processes.

I recall digging through some on the innernut years ago, to learn old techniques and formulas while researching blacksmithing.

Best,
Fran
Francis; "i" for him, "e" for her
"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" - the unappreciative supervisor.


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 Post subject: Re: Wood grained cygnet questions.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:42 am 
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Victor V
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:47 am
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Location: Jerome, Arizona
I used to work at a paint store and I can tell you that with nothing more than a piece of lint-free cheesecloth, a graining roller (for oak), and a sable brush, one can imitate grain very realistically. Be sure to use lint-free cheesecloth only.
"All of us have a place in history. Mine is clouds." Richard Brautigan


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